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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lando68 on December 15, 2007, at 14:23:29
I'm not sure what I'm trying to say here, just thinking as I type. I haven't cleaned my house in about two years. I've cleaned small areas of it now and then as needed, but not an overall decluttering and sanitizing kind of cleaning of the entire place (and it's a small house - 700ish square feet). I've never been a neat freak and have always had a tendency to let clutter build until a certain point and then clean everything up...and then the cycle would start over. But in the last two years, I seem to have lost that switch that keeps the cycle going. It's not that I don't care at all that nearly every surface in my house is piled with clutter, or that I haven't changed my sheets in a couple of months, or that there is a carton of orange juice (among many other things) in my fridge that expired 18 months ago - it's that I don't care enough to do something about it. It isn't hurting anything. It isn't hurting me. Neatness is as neatness does, and all that. To paraphrase a line from the movie "The Breakup", I don't want myself to DO the dishes, I want myself to WANT to do the dishes. But I DON'T want to, not very much. Not enough to actually do them. Does this mean I have low self-esteem, or does it just mean that my priorities/values are different than they used to be? Is it the meds? I mean, I have enough self-esteem to shower daily, do my laundry often enough to wear clean clothes, hold down a job, and feed my dog and feed my fish and water my plants. And the time I've spent thinking about the WHY of all this could likely have been used to clean the entire house several times over, and I suspect the fact that this thought has occurred to me means that on some level it does bother me quite a bit...but, again, not enough to get back to where I was. Any thoughts?
Posted by ClearSkies on December 17, 2007, at 8:55:21
In reply to Self Esteem in re Apathy/Inertia/Anhedonia, posted by lando68 on December 15, 2007, at 14:23:29
It sounds to me like depression rather than a problem with self esteem. You're clearing a path so you can get out the door and function - showering, cleaning the clothes you need to wear, and keeping the plants alive (that's pretty major in itself!), but there's nothing left, as it were, for the rest of your surroundings. I do know this feeling well, and the only way I've been able to keep from feeling overwhelmed by it is to tackle a very small slice of it at a time.
So, say, if the dining room table is piled a foot high with all sorts of stuff, and you don't even know what sorts of stuff it is, instead of making it a job to clear the entire table one evening, tackle instead just one quarter of it. (Just enough to give you a spot to eat off of if you wanted to.) It's not the whole enchilada; if you get stuck, you can actually put the stuff you clear on top of the other stuff on the table (!), and it will give you an inroad to getting the rest of the table cleared.
Or, another tactic is to set a kitchen timer for 15 minutes, and do nothing but tidy up for those fifteen minutes. When the timer goes off, you're done - off the hook. For me, it's been crucial to put the insurmountable tasks into portions that are possible for me to succeed at. A whole day of cleaning is NOT possible. 15 minutes definitely IS. By setting small and attainable goals for myself, I was able to start regaining some control over the mess and chaos in my house. And now I don't get quite as freaked out if I see bits of it getting messed up again, because I know I'll be able to schnibble away at it if it gets too bad.
I don't know if this helps you at all, but it's where I ended up.
ClearSkies
Posted by lando68 on December 17, 2007, at 18:34:35
In reply to Re: Self Esteem in re Apathy/Inertia/Anhedonia » lando68, posted by ClearSkies on December 17, 2007, at 8:55:21
> It sounds to me like depression rather than a problem with self esteem. You're clearing a path so you can get out the door and function - showering, cleaning the clothes you need to wear, and keeping the plants alive (that's pretty major in itself!), but there's nothing left, as it were, for the rest of your surroundings. I do know this feeling well, and the only way I've been able to keep from feeling overwhelmed by it is to tackle a very small slice of it at a time.
>
> So, say, if the dining room table is piled a foot high with all sorts of stuff, and you don't even know what sorts of stuff it is, instead of making it a job to clear the entire table one evening, tackle instead just one quarter of it. (Just enough to give you a spot to eat off of if you wanted to.) It's not the whole enchilada; if you get stuck, you can actually put the stuff you clear on top of the other stuff on the table (!), and it will give you an inroad to getting the rest of the table cleared.
>
> Or, another tactic is to set a kitchen timer for 15 minutes, and do nothing but tidy up for those fifteen minutes. When the timer goes off, you're done - off the hook. For me, it's been crucial to put the insurmountable tasks into portions that are possible for me to succeed at. A whole day of cleaning is NOT possible. 15 minutes definitely IS. By setting small and attainable goals for myself, I was able to start regaining some control over the mess and chaos in my house. And now I don't get quite as freaked out if I see bits of it getting messed up again, because I know I'll be able to schnibble away at it if it gets too bad.
>
> I don't know if this helps you at all, but it's where I ended up.
> ClearSkiesThanks - it actually does help. It's good advice. And 'schnibble' is a good word. :-)
Posted by ClearSkies on December 18, 2007, at 12:13:25
In reply to Re: Self Esteem in re Apathy/Inertia/Anhedonia, posted by lando68 on December 17, 2007, at 18:34:35
Another thing that's occurred to me is that even though the depression may be behind us not being able to keep up with our households, I think it affects our self esteem adversely. I see my household start to decay around me and think that I'm not a good enough person because I used to be able to keep on top of things like clutter and dead things in my fridge; and as depression gets worse and I no longer have the strength or control over those things, I feel like a loser because of it.
Of course, I try not to use that negative self talk, but to deny it exists is folly. I DO think I'm a loser sometimes because the dust bunnies have taken over my hallway. What kind of effort would it take to sweep them away? The kind of effort that just escapes me, most days. And so I continue to beat myself up over the most trivial of things, and that beating up is what erodes how I esteem myself.
How to separate the illness of depression and what it does from who I am - this is a daily struggle for me. The core of who I am has NOTHING to do with wrestling the dust bunnies into submission - yet I judge myself by this very criteria on a pretty regular basis.
ClearSkies
Posted by lando68 on December 18, 2007, at 19:01:29
In reply to Re: Self Esteem in re Apathy/Inertia/Anhedonia » lando68, posted by ClearSkies on December 18, 2007, at 12:13:25
> Another thing that's occurred to me is that even though the depression may be behind us not being able to keep up with our households, I think it affects our self esteem adversely. I see my household start to decay around me and think that I'm not a good enough person because I used to be able to keep on top of things like clutter and dead things in my fridge; and as depression gets worse and I no longer have the strength or control over those things, I feel like a loser because of it.
>
> Of course, I try not to use that negative self talk, but to deny it exists is folly. I DO think I'm a loser sometimes because the dust bunnies have taken over my hallway. What kind of effort would it take to sweep them away? The kind of effort that just escapes me, most days. And so I continue to beat myself up over the most trivial of things, and that beating up is what erodes how I esteem myself.
>
> How to separate the illness of depression and what it does from who I am - this is a daily struggle for me. The core of who I am has NOTHING to do with wrestling the dust bunnies into submission - yet I judge myself by this very criteria on a pretty regular basis.
>
> ClearSkiesThat's a good point - attempting to separate who we really are from how we sometimes (or often) behave/feel. I probably often judge myself because I feel that others would judge me if I allowed them to see what a "mess" I am. And it's one thing to know something intellectually (like how easy it would or should be to declutter, or exercise, or whatever) but quite another to summon the will power to do it.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 26, 2007, at 17:49:36
In reply to Re: Self Esteem in re Apathy/Inertia/Anhedonia, posted by lando68 on December 18, 2007, at 19:01:29
I find that when I'm depressed, the state of chaos in my house reflects this mood. Sometimes I don't even feel depressed, but I know I must still be since I let things go to an extreme. When I actually know I'm not depressed anymore, I can see by how I keep things in place and organized, that my environment reflects my internal balence.
It's odd since there are many times I think I'm not depressed but I know I am when my closet is totally turned upside down. For m, chaos or disorganization is a sign of lingering depression.
Luckily my husband is a neat nik and I strive to keep things clean for him. If I lived alone I'm afraid I would really let things slide.
stargazer
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