![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by undopaminergic on March 22, 2023, at 3:34:33
Hi all,
this is just to alert you that if you scroll to the beginning of the topic list page, someone has replied to an old thread about doxycycline. Interestingly, he/she says it worked great for depression.
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2023, at 10:16:01
In reply to Doxycycline, posted by undopaminergic on March 22, 2023, at 3:34:33
> Hi all,
>
> this is just to alert you that if you scroll to the beginning of the topic list page, someone has replied to an old thread about doxycycline. Interestingly, he/she says it worked great for depression.
>
> -undopaminergic
>The very first thing my current doctor did with me is start me on doxycycline. I remained on it for three months. He first wanted to rule-out Lyme Disease. On the other hand, monocycline helped quit a bit to improve depression. I was forced to discontinue it because, after a delay of about a year, I developed black and blue hyperpigmentation of the feet, ankles, and shins. It took over a year after discontinuing monocycline for the dark discolorations to disappear.
Last time I looked into it, monocycline was deemed a much more potent anti-inflammatory for the brain than doxycycline. I think it reduces the secretion of inflammatory cytokines by microglial brain cells. Brain inflammation is seen commonly in depression. Chicken or Egg?
- Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on March 22, 2023, at 13:09:19
In reply to Re: Doxycycline » undopaminergic, posted by SLS on March 22, 2023, at 10:16:01
> > Hi all,
> >
> > this is just to alert you that if you scroll to the beginning of the topic list page, someone has replied to an old thread about doxycycline. Interestingly, he/she says it worked great for depression.
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
> The very first thing my current doctor did with me is start me on doxycycline. I remained on it for three months. He first wanted to rule-out Lyme Disease. On the other hand, monocycline helped quit a bit to improve depression. I was forced to discontinue it because, after a delay of about a year, I developed black and blue hyperpigmentation of the feet, ankles, and shins. It took over a year after discontinuing monocycline for the dark discolorations to disappear.
>
> Last time I looked into it, monocycline was deemed a much more potent anti-inflammatory for the brain than doxycycline. I think it reduces the secretion of inflammatory cytokines by microglial brain cells. Brain inflammation is seen commonly in depression. Chicken or Egg?
>
>
> - ScottIt's minocycline, not mono-. I remember that because I associate it with the minotaur of Greek mythology!
Both of them are part of a class of antibiotics called tetracyclines (tetracycline itself is actually semi-synthetic). I have tried tetracycline (itself) for acne, but as I recall it, I did not use it for long due to gastrointestinal side effects.
I did not know these drugs were anti-inflammatories. I was thinking that, as they are antibiotics, they worked by affecting the body's microbiome. I seem to be seeing an increasing number of new research studies suggesting that microbes can affect depression (and the lack thereof) in major ways, and the manipulation thereof (eg. by probiotic supplements and fecal transplants) holds promise for treating some mental disorders.
However, I'm aware that depression has been associated with inflammation. In fact, it seems to be the main successor of the old monoamine hypothesis. Therefore, more specifically (than (tetra-)cyclines) anti-inflammatory drugs may be of interest. As far as I'm aware, there are two major classes of them: corticosteriods and NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs). Corticosteroids can induce a condition called steroid-euphoria, and the cortisol (the endogenous corticosteroid) curve is disturbed in some types of depression (notably burnout syndrome). However, corticosteroids can be detrimental for some mental faculties (not to mention other bodily functions), such as memory.
From "Google research" for the purposes of composing this message, I found this interesting, although a bit dated, review on the effects of corticosteroids on the psyche:
https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/60/705/467.full.pdfTo me, it suggests that the wide variety of mental changes from steroid administration is most likely due to the upsetting or correcting of the individual balance of corticosteroid-receptor agonism. In other words, these drugs may either *cause* or *treat* certain mental conditions.
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 22, 2023, at 20:18:52
In reply to Re: Doxycycline » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on March 22, 2023, at 13:09:19
Hi, UD.
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > this is just to alert you that if you scroll to the beginning of the topic list page, someone has replied to an old thread about doxycycline. Interestingly, he/she says it worked great for depression.
> > >
> > > -undopaminergic
> > >
> >
> > The very first thing my current doctor did with me is start me on doxycycline. I remained on it for three months. He first wanted to rule-out Lyme Disease. On the other hand, monocycline helped quit a bit to improve depression. I was forced to discontinue it because, after a delay of about a year, I developed black and blue hyperpigmentation of the feet, ankles, and shins. It took over a year after discontinuing monocycline for the dark discolorations to disappear.
> >
> > Last time I looked into it, monocycline was deemed a much more potent anti-inflammatory for the brain than doxycycline. I think it reduces the secretion of inflammatory cytokines by microglial brain cells. Brain inflammation is seen commonly in depression. Chicken or Egg?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> It's minocycline, not mono-. I remember that because I associate it with the minotaur of Greek mythology!Yup. Thanks.
> Both of them are part of a class of antibiotics called tetracyclines (tetracycline itself is actually semi-synthetic). I have tried tetracycline (itself) for acne, but as I recall it, I did not use it for long due to gastrointestinal side effects.
>
> I did not know these drugs were anti-inflammatories. I was thinking that, as they are antibiotics, they worked by affecting the body's microbiome. I seem to be seeing an increasing number of new research studies suggesting that microbes can affect depression (and the lack thereof) in major ways, and the manipulation thereof (eg. by probiotic supplements and fecal transplants) holds promise for treating some mental disorders.I read something about that earlier today. I'll introduce your information to my doctor. He's big on brain inflammation.
> However, I'm aware that depression has been associated with inflammation. In fact, it seems to be the main successor of the old monoamine hypothesis. Therefore, more specifically (than (tetra-)cyclines) anti-inflammatory drugs may be of interest.
An increasing number of researchers are investigating brain inflammation and depression - more than I thought. There are quite a few investigators who are studying celecoxib (Celebrex) in the treatment of depression.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=celecoxib+depression
> As far as I'm aware, there are two major classes of them: corticosteriods and NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs). Corticosteroids can induce a condition called steroid-euphoria, and the cortisol (the endogenous corticosteroid) curve is disturbed in some types of depression (notably burnout syndrome). However, corticosteroids can be detrimental for some mental faculties (not to mention other bodily functions), such as memory.
My 99 year old grandmother, who hadn't suffered a single episode of mental illness in her life, hallucinated right in front of me while she was in the hospital and taking prednisolone.
> From "Google research" for the purposes of composing this message, I found this interesting, although a bit dated, review on the effects of corticosteroids on the psyche:
>
> https://pmj.bmj.com/content/postgradmedj/60/705/467.full.pdf
>
>
> To me, it suggests that the wide variety of mental changes from steroid administration is most likely due to the upsetting or correcting of the individual balance of corticosteroid-receptor agonism. In other words, these drugs may either *cause* or *treat* certain mental conditions.That's a great appraisal. I never considered any of that. I'll pay more attention to this. The number of dissimilar psychiatric side effects produced by prednisolone are many.
A few weeks ago, I had to take a course of prednisolone treatment for an abrupt onset of spinal stenosis. The pain was incredible. Over the first few days of treatment, I experienced bouts of intense crying about my physical deterioration and being haunted by my tortured past. I would say that my crying was too easily-triggered and exaggerated in intensity. The thing is, I couldn't see the difference. It all felt justified at the time.
- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on March 23, 2023, at 18:50:18
In reply to Re: Doxycycline » undopaminergic, posted by SLS on March 22, 2023, at 20:18:52
Hi Scott:
I live on gulps of NSAID's...Ibuprofen..Naproxen..etc. It's very unhealthy, as it greatly increases risk of stroke, heart attack...etc. Plus, it damages kidneys, and mine are starting to show it. I need LARGE doses of NSAID's too...ugh. But, I seem to get tension headaches...and often just general headaches. At 13 years of age, I gulped back bottles of aspirin (Anacin). My pain has been daily for most of my life. Tylenol does VERY little for me. Surprisingly, ALL antibiotics seem to bring me relief. (My microbiome is odd...I NEED antibiotics to poop. Probiotics constipate me.) BTW, ALL antibiotics are anti-inflammatory.
Jay
Posted by SLS on March 23, 2023, at 19:53:28
In reply to Re: Doxycycline, posted by Jay2112 on March 23, 2023, at 18:50:18
> Hi Scott:
>
> I live on gulps of NSAID's...Ibuprofen..Naproxen..etc. It's very unhealthy, as it greatly increases risk of stroke, heart attack...etc. Plus, it damages kidneys, and mine are starting to show it. I need LARGE doses of NSAID's too...ugh. But, I seem to get tension headaches...and often just general headaches. At 13 years of age, I gulped back bottles of aspirin (Anacin). My pain has been daily for most of my life. Tylenol does VERY little for me. Surprisingly, ALL antibiotics seem to bring me relief. (My microbiome is odd..> I NEED antibiotics to poop. Probiotics constipate me.) BTW, ALL antibiotics are anti-inflammatory.
Crap. <grin> Really. I never heard of that. NSAIDs + acetaminophen is a great combination. It's been used in Europe for years. Now, there is a combination preparation available in the U.S. I don't like combination preparations if your needs don't match exactly the ratio that serves you best. Example, Symbyax - a combination of fluoxetine + olanzapine. Dumb. I don't think it ever became popular.
Excedrin = aspirin + acetaminophen + caffeineadd an NSAID to that? I don't know. The antibiotic thing is a revelation to me. I see more and more written about the microbiome, but I am woefully behind the times. Now, they talk about proteomes and one other thing that I forget. Epigenetics is an interesting field of study that can affect gene expression. I think it depends on how the strands of DNA are folded by histones - often in response to the environment.
Check out meloxicam (Mobic). It's an NSAID that I found effective for treating an excruciating episode of spinal stenosis. Prednisolone didn't do a darn thing. From what I was told, one cannot say that one is stronger than another. As with antidepresssants, one NSAID will help while others won't based on one's idiosyncratic biology.
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on March 24, 2023, at 19:20:37
In reply to Re: Doxycycline, posted by Jay2112 on March 23, 2023, at 18:50:18
Hi Jay,
In studies conducted at Harvard, Duke, and the University of Arizona, green light therapy has been shown to significantly reduce the frequency and severity of migraines. It also helps other forms of acute and chronic pain, including fibromyalgia. Green light should be the only source of light for at least one hour daily.
Two years ago, I gave a friend who suffers from chronic migraines this $20 green light therapy bulb:
https://www.amazon.com/NorbRELIEF-Migraine-Research-Associated-Fibromyalgia/dp/B082MT71M8
My friend admitted to me a couple weeks ago that she only started using this light bulb recently. She didn't think it would help, so she didn't bother trying it -- until she was having a particularly bad migraine recently. She waited until the sun went down, and then used the green light bulb as her only source of light in the room. She was amazed by how well it alleviated her pain.
Here's some information about it:
https://news.arizona.edu/story/green-light-therapy-shown-reduce-migraine-frequency-intensity
https://www.tmc.edu/news/2020/02/exposure-to-green-light-may-reduce-pain/
https://hms.harvard.edu/news/green-light-migraine-relief
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOx_bVFUW0M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOIJH2u1B78
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fjHwN08948
Posted by SLS on March 24, 2023, at 19:59:06
In reply to Re: Doxycycline » Jay2112, posted by Hugh on March 24, 2023, at 19:20:37
Great Info, Hugh.
I appreciate your providing links.
There was a doctor in Princeton, NJ who had made a bunch of different colored sunglassses that he had his patients wear. The color he chose was depending on the condition being treated. His name was Peter S. Mueller. I knew some of his patients. Each one wore different color lenses. He died a few years back, but I almost went to see him. He actually helped to identify and develop treatments for Seasonal Affective Disorder along with Norman Rosenthal. He appears as an author in almost 200 published articles on PubMed (Medline). His later work was devoted to medical ethics and doctor-assisted auto-euthansia (suicide).
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on March 28, 2023, at 13:10:34
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info. » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 24, 2023, at 19:59:06
Thanks, Scott.
I'd never heard of seasonal energy syndrome before. Dr. Mueller gave new meaning to the phrase "seeing the world through rose-colored glasses."
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Flip+side+of+%27winter+depression.%27-a04164411
This study found that green light therapy lessens neuroinflammation:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36283655/
> Great Info, Hugh.
>
> I appreciate your providing links.
>
> There was a doctor in Princeton, NJ who had made a bunch of different colored sunglassses that he had his patients wear. The color he chose was depending on the condition being treated. His name was Peter S. Mueller. I knew some of his patients. Each one wore different color lenses. He died a few years back, but I almost went to see him. He actually helped to identify and develop treatments for Seasonal Affective Disorder along with Norman Rosenthal. He appears as an author in almost 200 published articles on PubMed (Medline). His later work was devoted to medical ethics and doctor-assisted auto-euthansia (suicide).
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by undopaminergic on March 28, 2023, at 15:54:27
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info. » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 24, 2023, at 19:59:06
> Great Info, Hugh.
>
> I appreciate your providing links.
>
> His name was Peter S. Mueller. ... His later work was devoted to medical ethics and doctor-assisted auto-euthansia (suicide).
>Incidentally, that's how Sigmund Freud went. I don't recall the name of the doctor assisting in his suicide, but the method was an overdose of morphine. It's the way I'd like to go, as it is very peaceful and painless. Largely for that reason, it takes less courage than most other methods, such as cyanide or jumping off a building, so I might have been dead already had I had access to it. There was an occasion where I was going to take cyanide but I chickened out and flushed it down the loo. Would I have done the same if it had been heroin?
-undopaminergic
Posted by SLS on March 29, 2023, at 12:29:32
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info. » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on March 28, 2023, at 15:54:27
> > Great Info, Hugh.
> >
> > I appreciate your providing links.
> >
> > His name was Peter S. Mueller. ... His later work was devoted to medical ethics and doctor-assisted auto-euthansia (suicide).
> >
>
> Incidentally, that's how Sigmund Freud went. I don't recall the name of the doctor assisting in his suicide, but the method was an overdose of morphine. It's the way I'd like to go, as it is very peaceful and painless. Largely for that reason, it takes less courage than most other methods, such as cyanide or jumping off a building, so I might have been dead already had I had access to it. There was an occasion where I was going to take cyanide but I chickened out and flushed it down the loo. Would I have done the same if it had been heroin?
>
> -undopaminergic
>That makes me incredibly sad as I type this. Please don't act on impulse. I am an advocate of an individual's right to self-terminate. I don't like the word "suicide, as rational a decision as it may be. I prefer the term "auto-euthansia".
- Scott
Posted by Jay2112 on March 29, 2023, at 18:09:07
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info., posted by SLS on March 29, 2023, at 12:29:32
> > > Great Info, Hugh.
> > >
> > > I appreciate your providing links.
> > >
> > > His name was Peter S. Mueller. ... His later work was devoted to medical ethics and doctor-assisted auto-euthansia (suicide).
> > >
> >
> > Incidentally, that's how Sigmund Freud went. I don't recall the name of the doctor assisting in his suicide, but the method was an overdose of morphine. It's the way I'd like to go, as it is very peaceful and painless. Largely for that reason, it takes less courage than most other methods, such as cyanide or jumping off a building, so I might have been dead already had I had access to it. There was an occasion where I was going to take cyanide but I chickened out and flushed it down the loo. Would I have done the same if it had been heroin?
> >
> > -undopaminergic
> >
>
> That makes me incredibly sad as I type this. Please don't act on impulse. I am an advocate of an individual's right to self-terminate. I don't like the word "suicide, as rational a decision as it may be. I prefer the term "auto-euthansia".
>
>
> - ScottYes, I agree. I am not one to give in too easy, but getting some terminal illness...I want a simple, easy (well, that is subjective, but..) exit. I will fight my challenges, but want it over before all the f***ing drama IF it becomes too much. A nice opioid will do it fine.
Jay
Posted by SLS on March 29, 2023, at 18:51:35
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info., posted by Jay2112 on March 29, 2023, at 18:09:07
Hang in there.
- Scott
Posted by Hugh on March 30, 2023, at 12:43:31
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info. » Hugh, posted by SLS on March 24, 2023, at 19:59:06
I'm going to order one of these. Only once a week for three minutes!
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/11/211124154118.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJz-qxzMCY
https://gembared.com/products/gembared-vector-670nm-mini-red-led-light-panel
Posted by SLS on April 1, 2023, at 11:35:53
In reply to Re: Doxycycline - Excellent Info. » SLS, posted by undopaminergic on March 28, 2023, at 15:54:27
> > Great Info, Hugh.
> >
> > I appreciate your providing links.
> >
> > His name was Peter S. Mueller. ... His later work was devoted to medical ethics and doctor-assisted auto-euthansia (suicide).
> >
>
> Incidentally, that's how Sigmund Freud went. I don't recall the name of the doctor assisting in his suicide, but the method was an overdose of morphine. It's the way I'd like to go, as it is very peaceful and painless. Largely for that reason, it takes less courage than most other methods, such as cyanide or jumping off a building, so I might have been dead already had I had access to it. There was an occasion where I was going to take cyanide but I chickened out and flushed it down the loo. Would I have done the same if it had been heroin?
I looked into Freud's auto-euthanasia after reading your post. He had oral cancer of the jaw. I understand it was extremely painful. Radiation was tried, but only made things worse. It was getting to the point where he had difficulty speaking and swallowing. He continued to smoked cigars right to the very end, despite advice not to.Sad.
- Scott
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.