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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 5:21:33
I recently switched from Xanax to Valium and successfully tapered down to only 5mg diazepam 4x/day. Thank God! :-) yay..
Anyway, I was using a brand called "Valisanbe 5" in the original foil blister packs with an expiration date of 2013. They worked well!
Then I reached for my plastic baggy and old prescription bottle (3 years old) that contained diazepam from a bottle opened 3 years ago. Expiration date on it would have been 5 years too (so, perhaps 2012).
However, I noticed when I ran out of Valisanbe brand and had to take the loose pills instead that it is not taking effect quickly like Valisanbe and less effect overall, but nothing serious. In other words, no withdrawal.
Valisanbe made me feel pretty comfortable and for a long time too. I know that's not necessarily a good thing as it could lead to psychological dependence.
I do remember that when I opened the generic diazepam in 2007 that it was potent. Now it doesn't seem like that. I did put moisture absorbent packets in some of the plastic baggies, but forgot to put it in my prescription bottle. The pills aren't degraded in appearance.
Did the pills lose potency? I don't want to waste old, but still good medication if at all possible.
1000 tablets for only $60. (No, I don't and never did abuse it.. was only trying to save money as my psychiatrist wanted me on diazepam and kept me on it for the long term. He told me it was better to taper Stablon and he would rather have me off Stablon than diazepam). That's like an 8 month supply @ 5mg QID and really saves me big on my budget.
That said, Valisanbe is the same price, but I have to see the pdoc to get it as my pharmacist buddy can't get that.
Can it lose potency in just 3 years? Kept in plastic baggies (usually prescriptions are dispensed in plastic baggies here unlike in the West) with air conditioning (low humidity) running all the time. Average temperature of 82-84F in the house but low humidity.
Posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 5:25:49
In reply to old Valium..generic loses potency more than brand?, posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 5:21:33
Oops, I just found digital images I took of the generic diazepam bottle.
It says the expiration date is June 2010.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 28, 2010, at 9:13:37
In reply to old Valium..generic loses potency more than brand?, posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 5:21:33
Valisanbe is essentially a generic. This type of generic is known as a 'branded generic' ie. a generic drug which has been given a brand name. It is not the brand leader ie. the original product, Valium. In some countries, virtually all generics are branded generics. Here is the UK, most generics are unbranded ie. the manufacturers do not give their products brand names. In general, there is no difference in quality between branded generics and unbranded generics.
>Can it lose potency in just 3 years?
Possibly, but probably only a little. Diazepam tablets are quite chemically stable. Perhaps the storage conditions were not ideal.
Posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 9:52:51
In reply to Re: old Valium..generic loses potency more than brand? » sukarno, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 28, 2010, at 9:13:37
Thanks Ed for the explanation.
Perhaps it is a matter of excipients or bioavailability? It seems that Valisanbe hit me much more quickly and was rather pleasurable, whereas this one doesn't seem to take effect quickly and I don't even notice it when it does finally take effect. Maybe it's better that way.
It could be too that I somehow "knew", rightly or wrongly, that the old tablets were not good, so a placebo effect took hold and made me think it wasn't working.
Lots of people think brands are better than generics, but from what I've read (and even in Indonesia there are standards for generics to perform on par with brands) the generic should not be worse than a brand.
Sanbe is a reputable manufacturer though for a branded generic. The non-branded generic I'm using now is made by Phapros in Semarang, Indonesia and is usually distributed to the low-cost government clinics known as Puskesmas (Pusat Kesehatan Masyarakat = Community Health Centers, a type of "socialised medicine" set up by the former strongman Suharto decades ago. I wouldn't go there though, even though it's only $2 to $2.50 to see the doctor. The service absolutely and positively sucks. heh. Don't get your teeth filled there, that's for sure! :-)
Thanks,
sukarno
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2010, at 10:58:05
In reply to Re: old Valium..generic loses potency more than brand?, posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 9:52:51
I also think it's the generic or brand name that you start with that lets you know if it will work for you. Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 28, 2010, at 14:49:34
In reply to Re: old Valium..generic loses potency more than brand?, posted by sukarno on March 28, 2010, at 9:52:51
Like most mass produced drugs, diazepam only costs a few pence/cents/whatever to manufacture. The branded drug is extremely cheap to make, not just the generic. This also applies to most modern psych drugs which are manufactured in huge quantites and then sold at high prices. It's all about economies of scale. Branded drugs are normally sold with vastly greater mark-ups than generics. This is initially vital to cover the cost of research but the continued high prices of certain branded drugs after many years on the market is a bit of a farce.
>Perhaps it is a matter of excipients or bioavailability?
The excipients can affect the chemical stability of the tablet. In some cases, a brand may have a longer expiry date than the generic or vice versa.
This is the end of the thread.
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