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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by friedokra1 on October 29, 2009, at 21:22:05
is this combo counteractive?
on this other forum, the girl thinks so...
http://www.mindandmuscle.net/forum/l...hp/t19035.html
I dont really understand all the NMDA talk. what does it all mean!!!!!?
I wish there was a nice resource out there for tianeptine combos. I keep reading on line and it says that it decreases AMPA while piractam modulates it. aren't these two substances counteracting in the department?
also someone posted online about tianeptine's effect being reduced by benzos. anyway to validate this? where can I find thorough information about these combos. nothing on the internet breaks it down.
Posted by friedokra1 on October 29, 2009, at 21:23:34
In reply to tianeptine and piracetam, posted by friedokra1 on October 29, 2009, at 21:22:05
tianeptine has been working good though by itself for my social anxiety - even though it doesnt work for long.
I need the piracetam though because my brain doesnt feel awake a lot of the time and piracetam will do the trick.
Posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 0:14:46
In reply to tianeptine and piracetam, posted by friedokra1 on October 29, 2009, at 21:22:05
The NMDA receptor (NMDAR), a glutamate receptor, is the predominant molecular device for controlling synaptic plasticity and memory function
Antagonists of the NMDA receptor are used as anesthetics for animals and sometimes humans, and are often used as recreational drugs due to their hallucinogenic properties, in addition to their unique effects at elevated dosages such as dissociation.
A positive change in transmembrane potential will make it more likely that the ion channel in the NMDA receptor will open. This property is fundamental to the role of the NMDA receptor in memory and learning,
NMDA antagonists are being studied for their potential in treating OCD.
P
Posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 0:24:58
In reply to tianeptine and piracetam, posted by friedokra1 on October 29, 2009, at 21:22:05
> is this combo counteractive?
> I dont really understand all the NMDA talk. what does it all mean!!!!!?
NMDA is important in memory and learning
> I wish there was a nice resource out there for tianeptine combos.
Here's a nice link on Tianeptine-http://www.tianeptine.com/
>I keep reading on line and it says that it >decreases AMPA while piractam modulates it. >aren't these two substances counteracting in the >department?
From what I can tell, both Tianeptine and Piractam modulate NMDA receptors similarly, improving cognition and learning.
> also someone posted online about tianeptine's effect being reduced by benzos. anyway to validate this?
I found an article showing otherwise: http://www.tianeptine.com/stablon-oxazepam.html
P
Posted by friedokra1 on October 30, 2009, at 15:39:10
In reply to Re: tianeptine and piracetam » friedokra1, posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 0:24:58
thanks,
what is the difference between modulation and antagonism?
what does modulate even mean when we are referring to a neurotransmitter?
what about AMPA as it relates to tianeptine and piracetam?
Posted by Phidippus on October 31, 2009, at 19:01:08
In reply to Re: tianeptine and piracetam, posted by friedokra1 on October 30, 2009, at 15:39:10
> thanks,
>
> what is the difference between modulation and antagonism?The NMDA receptor is modulated by a number of endogenous and exogenous compounds:[15]
Usually modulation involves blockade of the NMDA channel in some manner but also potentiation of some NMDA-induced responses-in other words modulators turn the sites on and off.> what does modulate even mean when we are referring to a neurotransmitter?
Inhibiting and potentiating a receptor site-like switching it on and off.
> what about AMPA as it relates to tianeptine and piracetam?
Piracetam is a positive modulator of AMPA-sensitive glutamate receptors - turning it on more than off - greater potentiation.
tianeptine rapidly increased the amplitudes of NMDA- and AMPA.
P
Posted by friedokra1 on November 1, 2009, at 23:40:25
In reply to Re: tianeptine and piracetam » friedokra1, posted by Phidippus on October 31, 2009, at 19:01:08
so, to make a long story short, are their actions contradictory or not? do they work oppositely or in tandem?
Posted by Phidippus on November 2, 2009, at 1:21:24
In reply to Re: tianeptine and piracetam, posted by friedokra1 on November 1, 2009, at 23:40:25
> so, to make a long story short, are their actions contradictory or not? do they work oppositely or in tandem?
They work in tandem to modulate glutamate.
P
Posted by friedokra1 on November 3, 2009, at 19:20:48
In reply to Re: tianeptine and piracetam » friedokra1, posted by Phidippus on October 30, 2009, at 0:24:58
from tianeptine.com: Tianeptine prevents overstimulation of AMPA
from http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17929164:
piracetam, a positive modulator of AMPA-sensitive glutamate receptors
doesn't this mean they work in contradiction?
Posted by friedokra1 on November 9, 2009, at 13:22:21
In reply to Re: tianeptine and piracetam » Phidippus, posted by friedokra1 on November 3, 2009, at 19:20:48
and then from http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6599896.html :
The Applicant has now discovered, surprisingly, that tianeptine is a modulator of glutamate receptors of the AMPA/kainate type and may therefore be used in the treatment of neurodegenerative pathologies.L-glutamic acid and L-aspartic acid are capable of activating the neurons of the central nervous system, and numerous studies have demonstrated that these excitatory amino acids (EAAs) meet the defining criteria of a neurotransmitter; for this reason, modulation of the neuronal events associated with those EAAs appears to be a promising target for the treatment of neurological diseases.
what gives? why does one source say tianeptine modulates ampa and the other source says it prevents its overstimulation? Am I ruining my brain from over thinking this or am I ruining my brain by taking medicines that work in opposite manner?
This is the end of the thread.
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