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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by iforgotmypassword on November 14, 2008, at 2:30:56
hi. i was wondering if melatonin being a 5-HT2a antagonist (i believe?) is essential to moderating things in that system beyond during sleep. does it regularly sensitize the brain in some necessary way? if so, in some people is this sensitization less effective? (my reasoning for theorizing that there is a type of sensitization effect is how we tend to develop tolerance to 5-HT2a agonists. i.e. an effect shown by he drug well after it is no longer significant in the blood, and even more than the well known agonists, melatonin has very short half life)
5-HT2a is supposed to be involved in decision making, and i gather for executive function. it also seems to be important for dopaminergic function in the PFC. i have tried to express my case before, but my lack of ability in this area is why i rarely respond to threads i start, even though i do follow them. messages are very hard to make, unless i am "in someone else's tide." interaction with people provides artificial motivation, but it is not functional, tends to magnify congnitive issues, and otherwise aside from being wound up i do very little and live in complete squalor.
in any case so this is about melatonin. i spend very little time in the dark (i cannot sleep without significant light, actual lights not night lights, and i often require noise.)
i am wondering if i may lack adequate production of melatonin, and if that may be producing a lack of moderation that it provides. if it could be causing my completely blown executive function, and ridiculous clustering of parkinsonian and akathitic-hyperactive symptoms.
sorry i can't make this message any more suitable for posting, sorry if it is not easy to read.
Posted by Phillipa on November 14, 2008, at 12:16:28
In reply to melatonin and 5-HT receptors; ADD, dysexecutive, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 14, 2008, at 2:30:56
I wish I had an answer for you seriously I do. Love Phillipa
Posted by Larry Hoover on November 14, 2008, at 17:32:06
In reply to melatonin and 5-HT receptors; ADD, dysexecutive, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 14, 2008, at 2:30:56
Well, the inability to tolerate dark while sleeping is almost assuredly suppressing melatonin production. Rather than relay information, perhaps a look at the wiki article would cover the issues....melatonin metabolism has many facets. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melatonin
The good news is that melatonin supplements are readily available and inexpensive. Individual dosing, though, requires a little bit of experimentation. I find 0.3 mg to be appropriate, whereas others report needing as much as 6-12 mg. It's best to gradually titrate the dose, as taking too much actually suppresses sleep.
The interactions between neurotransmitters and neuromodulators is so extensive, your hypothesized link with your neurological symptoms is certainly plausible. I urge you to trust your intuition.
Melatonin is seldom associated with side-effects of any kind, and is a superb antioxidant. I think it is well worth a trial.
All the best,
Lar
Posted by iforgotmypassword on November 15, 2008, at 4:35:45
In reply to Re: melatonin and 5-HT receptors; ADD, dysexecutive » iforgotmypassword, posted by Larry Hoover on November 14, 2008, at 17:32:06
i want to thank you for writing that very useful reply despite my clutter. i took too much lorazepam to try and dislodge and did not make myself any more functional so i don't know how far i can go with posting now. i have some other things in my mind about melatonin that i think i can express concisely and cogently, so i hope to try posting again soon, when i am less sedated.
Posted by desolationrower on November 15, 2008, at 8:42:49
In reply to melatonin and 5-HT receptors; ADD, dysexecutive, posted by iforgotmypassword on November 14, 2008, at 2:30:56
> hi. i was wondering if melatonin being a 5-HT2a antagonist (i believe?) is essential to moderating things in that system beyond during sleep. does it regularly sensitize the brain in some necessary way? if so, in some people is this sensitization less effective? (my reasoning for theorizing that there is a type of sensitization effect is how we tend to develop tolerance to 5-HT2a agonists. i.e. an effect shown by he drug well after it is no longer significant in the blood, and even more than the well known agonists, melatonin has very short half life)
>
> 5-HT2a is supposed to be involved in decision making, and i gather for executive function. it also seems to be important for dopaminergic function in the PFC. i have tried to express my case before, but my lack of ability in this area is why i rarely respond to threads i start, even though i do follow them. messages are very hard to make, unless i am "in someone else's tide." interaction with people provides artificial motivation, but it is not functional, tends to magnify congnitive issues, and otherwise aside from being wound up i do very little and live in complete squalor.
>
> in any case so this is about melatonin. i spend very little time in the dark (i cannot sleep without significant light, actual lights not night lights, and i often require noise.)
>
> i am wondering if i may lack adequate production of melatonin, and if that may be producing a lack of moderation that it provides. if it could be causing my completely blown executive function, and ridiculous clustering of parkinsonian and akathitic-hyperactive symptoms.
>
> sorry i can't make this message any more suitable for posting, sorry if it is not easy to read.melatonin has no known affinity for non-melatonin (mt1, mt2, mt3) receptors. still, if you are sleeping with teh lights on i'd take a couple mg of melatonin to keep sleep cycle working properly.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 23:40:13
In reply to Re: melatonin and 5-HT receptors; ADD, dysexecutive, posted by desolationrower on November 15, 2008, at 8:42:49
Hello. I'm sorry but I had to laugh at your post. You seem well versed in your subject matter, which is more than I can say for a lot of us.
>>"congnitive issues, and otherwise aside from being wound up i do very little and live in complete squalor."
My friend and I were just discussing that this is exactly how we both live.
> > in any case so this is about melatonin. i spend very little time in the dark (i cannot sleep without significant light, actual lights not night lights, and i often require noise.)
> >
> > i am wondering if i may lack adequate production of melatonin, and if that may be producing a lack of moderation that it provides. if it could be causing my completely blown executive function, and ridiculous clustering of parkinsonian and akathitic-hyperactive symptoms.
> >
> > sorry i can't make this message any more suitable for posting, sorry if it is not easy to read.
Perfectly suitable for posting, and for reading. And I'd like to thank you because I've been taking Melatonin for a month for insomnia, and have been wondering what effects it had other than helping with sleep. Now I know.I am sorry that you are having the symptoms you descibe above, I hope you get relief soon.
Best to you~Jade
Posted by linkadge on November 16, 2008, at 5:49:38
In reply to Re: melatonin and 5-HT receptors; ADD, dysexecutive, posted by JadeKelly on November 15, 2008, at 23:40:13
Melatonin doesn't have direct affinity for 5-ht2a or 5-ht1a, but it has been shown to interact with the 5-ht2a / 5-ht1a receptor system.
It does act as a functional 5-ht2a antagonist and it does work to sensitize the 5-ht1a receptor in hippocampal regions (at least in mice)
What bearing this would have in your case I don't know.
Just as a side note, you seem to be very obsessed with your lack of prefrontal cortex function, yet you speak very logically and (at least from these posts) are seeming to be almost overanalytical.
Are you sure there isn't a core disorder that isn't still being adressed? I mean, it seems that you have the capacity for organized thought, do you have the motivation to carry things out?
Lack of motivation may be more than low prefrontal cortex function. My personal problem with coming off SSRI's is reward deficiancy. I just can't feel anything pleasurable.
I don't think this is due to prefrontal cortex malfcuntion as much as it is lack of rewarding neurotransmitter function in certain limibc regions.
Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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