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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by mickapoo on August 3, 2008, at 7:38:36
I read an ancient post regarding soy sauce and MAOIs. I know that it's a no-no, but Elizabeth had said she found "a little bit of soy sauce is okay." My question is- how little? I am a Chinese food addict and if I have to give it up I will, but I can order the sauce on the side and wondered if I should try experimenting. Has anyone else been ok with having soy sauce? Also, it's not just pure soy sauce, it's what they call brown sauce that goes in the chicken & broccoli & other dishes. They told me there's a "little" soy sauce in it.
Also, I was wondering what everyone thought of this. I contacted our local Mexican restaurant, and asked them what kind of cheese they use. The chef came out and told me it's a mix of cheddar & monterey jack. Monterey jack isn't an aged cheese, right? And as far as the cheddar is concerned, I asked the chef if it was an aged cheddar, and she said no, it was processed. Would this mean it's ok? I was thinking again of maybe experimenting- buying some for take out & eating it at home in small amounts to see if it has any effect on my blood pressure.
Posted by Zeba on August 3, 2008, at 15:14:51
In reply to MAOIs- cheese + soy sauce -- eating out, posted by mickapoo on August 3, 2008, at 7:38:36
I take Parnate, and one day I forgot and ate a Chinese meal with soy. Did I ever get a headache. Now I try a very minimal amount of soy and can get away with that.
Re the cheeses, you have to be careful as there is a Monterray Jack that is not aged, and one that is aged called aged Jack. Also, I would wonder about the processed Cheddar as it will have some cheddar in it, and cheddar is a big no no. I do eat american processed cheese as a substitute for cheddar--hardly the same, but at least I don't go into hypertensive crisis. Usually if you ask, they will put it on the side, and you can try a little and a little more each time.
Zeba
Posted by mickapoo on August 3, 2008, at 17:08:29
In reply to Re: MAOIs- cheese + soy sauce -- eating out » mickapoo, posted by Zeba on August 3, 2008, at 15:14:51
> I take Parnate, and one day I forgot and ate a Chinese meal with soy. Did I ever get a headache. Now I try a very minimal amount of soy and can get away with that.
>
> Re the cheeses, you have to be careful as there is a Monterray Jack that is not aged, and one that is aged called aged Jack. Also, I would wonder about the processed Cheddar as it will have some cheddar in it, and cheddar is a big no no. I do eat american processed cheese as a substitute for cheddar--hardly the same, but at least I don't go into hypertensive crisis. Usually if you ask, they will put it on the side, and you can try a little and a little more each time.
>
> ZebaSo I guess this is a pretty stupid question, but do you avoid Mexican restaurants & fast food like Taco Bell? Can't really imagine Mexican food without cheese in it & I'm pretty sure they all use cheddar, or like my local restaurant, a combination thereof. Or do you think that places like Taco Bell use a cheaper, maybe processed form that isn't truly "aged"?
Posted by Zeba on August 4, 2008, at 20:30:31
In reply to Re: MAOIs- cheese + soy sauce -- eating out, posted by mickapoo on August 3, 2008, at 17:08:29
Unfortunately, yes I have been avoiding most Mexican food, at least the food with cheese in it, even the fast food places. The other day my husband and I were going to go to the beach and take a dinner. He got something to take from Taco Bell, one of my favorite items--the pizza thing, and we had to go across the street for me to get something at KFC. I also miss a lot of other things too, like lox and bagels--and pickled herring--a huge, huge no no. I have gotten used to it, though, and try to be careful. You can eat most pizza as it has mozzarala cheese.
Zeba
Posted by mickapoo on August 5, 2008, at 9:28:51
In reply to Re: MAOIs- cheese + soy sauce -- eating out » mickapoo, posted by Zeba on August 4, 2008, at 20:30:31
> Unfortunately, yes I have been avoiding most Mexican food, at least the food with cheese in it, even the fast food places. The other day my husband and I were going to go to the beach and take a dinner. He got something to take from Taco Bell, one of my favorite items--the pizza thing, and we had to go across the street for me to get something at KFC. I also miss a lot of other things too, like lox and bagels--and pickled herring--a huge, huge no no. I have gotten used to it, though, and try to be careful. You can eat most pizza as it has mozzarella cheese.
>
> ZebaIs provolone considered aged as well? I love my Philly cheese steaks and most of the time they come with provolone. Some restaurants don't have cheeses to substitute. What about something like Alfredo sauce that may have parmesan as part of the sauce?
Posted by gardenergirl on August 5, 2008, at 19:05:22
In reply to Re: MAOIs + cheese - provolone ok?, posted by mickapoo on August 5, 2008, at 9:28:51
Provolone is not aged, so it's usually okay. Parmesan is iffy. I use the Kraft stuff in a can in smaller amounts, because I figure anything that's so mass produced can't be all that aged. Still, I don't use it in quantities higher than about a quarter to a half cup depending on how many servings in the recipe. Alfredo sauce would be iffy depending on the quality of the Parmesan cheese used. I tend to stay away from it unless I know who made it and exactly what they used. Fortunately, I'm not much of a fan, anyway. I treat pestos the same way, incidentally.
gg
Posted by Zeba on August 5, 2008, at 21:37:29
In reply to Re: MAOIs + cheese - provolone ok? » mickapoo, posted by gardenergirl on August 5, 2008, at 19:05:22
Not so about provolene cheese. Some of it is aged- Provolone is a semi-hard cheese with taste varying greatly from Provolone Piccante (piquant), aged minimum 4 months and with a very sharp taste, to Provolone Dolce (sweet) with a very mild taste. In Provolone Piccante, the distinctive piquant taste is produced with lipase originating from goat. The Dolce version uses calf's lipase instead.
In regard to Parmesam, yes it is aged. I dearly love cheese but now have to stick to the fakes--the processed cheese like the fake swiss, etc. Cooked with food it is not too bad. Alone on crackers, it is awful. I am a big cheese fan, and I dearly love swiss cheese. The fake kind is not anything like the real thing, but what is more important for me is that the darn Parnate keeps me from being depressed. So, I can have cheese and pickled herring, and soy, and smoked lox or smoked other stuff off meds, and be depressed or not be depressed and live without some things due to the meds. And yes Alfredo sauce has Parmesan cheese in it. So, look at the labels. It seems gg found a Parmesan that is made from processed cheeses??? I am wondering who makes it? Can you say? Thanks.
Zeba
Posted by mickapoo on August 6, 2008, at 9:17:20
In reply to Re: MAOIs + cheese - provolone ok?, posted by Zeba on August 5, 2008, at 21:37:29
I guess my main concern isn't eating at home, because that I can control and definitely read the labels, but eating out seems very tricky. And my husband and I, well, we eat out quite a bit. I guess I will err on the side of caution and if not sure, just stay clear from it.
I have found ways though, to enjoy my favorite take out foods which would normally have been a no-no. For instance, I love the occasional Taco Bell- so I'll ask for it with no cheese (i.e. the burrito supreme) and then go home and put my own cheese on it (American, or some other processed, non-aged cheese) and melt it in the toaster oven. For Chinese food, which was something so hard to part with, I found a great recipe online for soy sauce substitute. I don't ever eat in at Chinese restaurants anyway, I only get take out, so this way I order it without the sauce, and when I get home, I put my own on it. I make a big batch and freeze it in half cup portions.
Posted by Zeba on August 6, 2008, at 23:30:49
In reply to Re: MAOIs + cheese at restaurants, posted by mickapoo on August 6, 2008, at 9:17:20
Good idea; I eat out some myself, and usually I just go ahead and ask if something has cheese on it. I have never been told I can't get something without the cheese or with a substitute cheese. Usually I too try to stay away from cheese,etc. just to be on the safe side. I love crab ragoon, though, and really miss being able to eat it.
Zeba
Posted by Crotale on August 8, 2008, at 2:56:31
In reply to Re: MAOIs + cheese at restaurants » mickapoo, posted by Zeba on August 6, 2008, at 23:30:49
Hi. I admit, I only eat "cheesy" cheese (you know, the processed stuff), as I am not too familiar with all the different cheeses or how cheese is made. I also stick to the cheesy stuff when it comes to soy sauce. I think a "small amount" is about 5mL.
If I'm not sure about something, I try a small amount (tyramine reaction is dose-related) and see if that affects my BP at all. (Note that modest effects may not give you a headache so the only way you can be sure is by checking your BP. I've found it very useful to have a BP monitor.)
Eating out has been where I've had some big, err, adventures, although it has been a while since I've had a serious reaction. Read the description on the menu carefully and if there's anything you're not sure about, ask the chef (or ask the waiter to ask the chef).
I'm pretty sure Taco Bell is okay. Even at a fast food place, there ought to be *somebody* who can tell you what kind of cheese they use, including whether or not it's processed. Explain that it's a medical issue so they'll know it's serious.
BTW, I took a look at the product monograph (the PDR entry) for Emsam. It's much more accurate with regard to food interactions than the older MAOI monographs.
Zeba has lots of good advice on this subject. I hope I've helped a little.
Take care, everyone!
-Crotale
Posted by blueboy on August 8, 2008, at 7:43:33
In reply to MAOIs- cheese + soy sauce -- eating out, posted by mickapoo on August 3, 2008, at 7:38:36
My suggestion: If you are going to take Nardil, just follow the food and drug guidelines and don't screw around with them. You're going to get tyramine without realizing it; messing around with "just a little" of very high tyramine foods is just asking for trouble.
This is the end of the thread.
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