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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by malcolm64 on April 25, 2007, at 14:46:50
Hi: I just started on Parnate this morning and have a question about the combination of this drug with common ingredients found in Thai food. I'm a huge fan of Thai food and that's virtually all I ever eat.
I know that Soy Sauce and shrimp paste are a big no-no while on MAO's, but what about other common ingredients that are staples of Thai cooking: fish sauce, and many of the curry pastes?
Also, I workout and drink a fair amount of whey protein powder during the day. According to the list my doc gave me, it says that powdered protein supplements are best avoided. How serious is this restriction? Or does it apply to only certain types of protein powders, like soy or milk protein.
Thanks!
Posted by Quintal on April 25, 2007, at 16:40:50
In reply to Questions about MAO diet, posted by malcolm64 on April 25, 2007, at 14:46:50
I wondered about whey protein myself. It contains tryptophan (possible risk of serotonin syndrome) and tyrosine, which could provoke a hypertensive crisis in theory. Willyee on here takes Parnate and works out a lot, so I guess he'd know whether it's safe.
Thai is probably one of the most hazardous diets you could combine with an MAOI unfortunately. And then there's the soy sauce issue. Elizabeth said small amounts are safe but the problem is: are small amounts taken often as safe as small amounts taken occasionally? If tyramine-rich foods are a staple of your diet you could find that although you're eating only small amounts of one tyramine-rich food, there could be several in a single dish. There's also the possibility of accumulation, where small amounts of tyramine linger in the body because of slowed metabolism and build up to toxic levels.
I have a feeling fish sauces are likely to 'ferment' a little unless they're very fresh, that's probably where most of the flavour comes from but I don't know for certain. I just stuck to simple foods like beans on toast, jam and bread, cereals and a few ready meals and pasta sauces I knew were safe.
Q
Posted by Honore on April 25, 2007, at 17:37:15
In reply to Re: Questions about MAO diet *calling willyee* » malcolm64, posted by Quintal on April 25, 2007, at 16:40:50
I'd be careful, if not totally avoidant, of ordering any cuisine where there's lots of soy sauce. At least my pdoc suggested that the problem is that when restaurants make a lot of foods with that, it tends to seep into more or less everything.
Also, if you eat it frequently, there can be an additive effects with tyramine (or any contraindicated substance). It depends on how much margin of safety you have at any dose-- ie you can have a certain amount without cross your personal threshold, but since Mao is knocked out for 2 weeks, on irreversible Maois, you have to think about how much of these things you're having over periods of time, rather than only in individual doses.
Again, this applies more as you reach whatever your individual threshold at any dose is. That's something you need to figure out over time, though, after you reach your dose level-- it really isn't something you can do until you get a sense of how the drug affects you.
There was a long discussion of whey and other protein products a while back, which you might be able to find in a search of the archives. I can't remember what the final conclusions were-- but I do think you need to be very careful also about protein supplements, because of the tyramine, etc, which also can be included with them, as well as soy products, as Quintal pointed out.
Honore
Posted by willyee on April 25, 2007, at 20:42:59
In reply to Re: Questions about MAO diet *calling willyee* » malcolm64, posted by Quintal on April 25, 2007, at 16:40:50
Personaly my no no is soy sauce,so i avoid it 100 percent,beer at risky levels etc are not direct no nos,only when i make mistakes i know i could have and should have avoided,but again soy to my knowledge,oh and imiprimine,which btw is STRONGLY CONTRADICTED are my no nos.I only took supplemental protein when i was on a low end dose of parnate,i had no problem.However i have not since i went as high as i am not,which ranges from 80mg - 130.
I personaly think they are a gimmick,i would get my protein from egg yolk,and pure meat like steak hamburgers etc.
Im more into carbs now with heavy lifting due to not getting anywhere on using those protien guidelines.After reading and already susprecting i mostly intake carbs,my workouts are less then half,my strentgh is three times,my gh has went from a 190 bench to 300 easy,my weight 189 to my current weight of 245.
I have a lot of muscle mass,but i do have body fat,but i suspect its due to MEDS...LACK OF CARDIO.....DEPRESSION ITSELF,CORISTONE.
I have to say if lifting is what u r into,id follow some carb routines,google them,its a theory like the protein one,it gives lots of energy and feeds ur body.
This is the latetest pic i have taken,as u can see i have a lot of body fat,but im really shocked at the overall mass ive gained,and strentgh.
If protein is what u want,id still chuck the colorful drinks bars shakes etc,and stick with old fasioned rocky balboa egg whites,and meat as a source of ur protein.
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7559/55979691ps5.jpg
> I wondered about whey protein myself. It contains tryptophan (possible risk of serotonin syndrome) and tyrosine, which could provoke a hypertensive crisis in theory. Willyee on here takes Parnate and works out a lot, so I guess he'd know whether it's safe.
>
> Thai is probably one of the most hazardous diets you could combine with an MAOI unfortunately. And then there's the soy sauce issue. Elizabeth said small amounts are safe but the problem is: are small amounts taken often as safe as small amounts taken occasionally? If tyramine-rich foods are a staple of your diet you could find that although you're eating only small amounts of one tyramine-rich food, there could be several in a single dish. There's also the possibility of accumulation, where small amounts of tyramine linger in the body because of slowed metabolism and build up to toxic levels.
>
> I have a feeling fish sauces are likely to 'ferment' a little unless they're very fresh, that's probably where most of the flavour comes from but I don't know for certain. I just stuck to simple foods like beans on toast, jam and bread, cereals and a few ready meals and pasta sauces I knew were safe.
>
> Q
Posted by malcolm64 on April 25, 2007, at 23:01:25
In reply to Re: Questions about MAO diet *calling willyee*, posted by willyee on April 25, 2007, at 20:42:59
Hi: can you tell me a bit more about your experience with Parnate? Are you taking it for social anxiety, and how effective has it been for that? And how long have you been on it?
I ate at an Asian restaurant this evening and without realizing it, I probably ate some appetizers that had soy sauce in it. Of course, this being my first day of being on Parnate, I don't think that the drug has built up enough in my system to where I would have a reaction. But it's definitely something that I'll have to watch out for. I'm on 10 mgs of Parnate to start with and will increase to 30 mgs in another 10 days.
thanks-
Malcolm>
> Personaly my no no is soy sauce,so i avoid it 100 percent,beer at risky levels etc are not direct no nos,only when i make mistakes i know i could have and should have avoided,but again soy to my knowledge,oh and imiprimine,which btw is STRONGLY CONTRADICTED are my no nos.
>
> I only took supplemental protein when i was on a low end dose of parnate,i had no problem.However i have not since i went as high as i am not,which ranges from 80mg - 130.
>
> I personaly think they are a gimmick,i would get my protein from egg yolk,and pure meat like steak hamburgers etc.
>
> Im more into carbs now with heavy lifting due to not getting anywhere on using those protien guidelines.After reading and already susprecting i mostly intake carbs,my workouts are less then half,my strentgh is three times,my gh has went from a 190 bench to 300 easy,my weight 189 to my current weight of 245.
>
> I have a lot of muscle mass,but i do have body fat,but i suspect its due to MEDS...LACK OF CARDIO.....DEPRESSION ITSELF,CORISTONE.
>
> I have to say if lifting is what u r into,id follow some carb routines,google them,its a theory like the protein one,it gives lots of energy and feeds ur body.
>
> This is the latetest pic i have taken,as u can see i have a lot of body fat,but im really shocked at the overall mass ive gained,and strentgh.
>
> If protein is what u want,id still chuck the colorful drinks bars shakes etc,and stick with old fasioned rocky balboa egg whites,and meat as a source of ur protein.
>
> http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7559/55979691ps5.jpg
>
>
>
>
> > I wondered about whey protein myself. It contains tryptophan (possible risk of serotonin syndrome) and tyrosine, which could provoke a hypertensive crisis in theory. Willyee on here takes Parnate and works out a lot, so I guess he'd know whether it's safe.
> >
> > Thai is probably one of the most hazardous diets you could combine with an MAOI unfortunately. And then there's the soy sauce issue. Elizabeth said small amounts are safe but the problem is: are small amounts taken often as safe as small amounts taken occasionally? If tyramine-rich foods are a staple of your diet you could find that although you're eating only small amounts of one tyramine-rich food, there could be several in a single dish. There's also the possibility of accumulation, where small amounts of tyramine linger in the body because of slowed metabolism and build up to toxic levels.
> >
> > I have a feeling fish sauces are likely to 'ferment' a little unless they're very fresh, that's probably where most of the flavour comes from but I don't know for certain. I just stuck to simple foods like beans on toast, jam and bread, cereals and a few ready meals and pasta sauces I knew were safe.
> >
> > Q
>
>
Posted by willyee on April 26, 2007, at 10:43:10
In reply to Re: Questions about MAO diet *calling willyee*, posted by malcolm64 on April 25, 2007, at 23:01:25
> Hi: can you tell me a bit more about your experience with Parnate? Are you taking it for social anxiety, and how effective has it been for that? And how long have you been on it?
>Thats the thing with this med,it can be a very individual sensative med.I had my strong reaction,the only one which actualy ever included spotting with chest pressure and headache,the whole 9 yards.
This was also on 10 mg and around the start,so for me soy sauce is a no no,this might not be the case with everyone,ive read people not being able to touch for example i dunno PIZZA while i normaly dont have problems with it.
Best i could say is do as you are,listen to your body,get familiar with the onset of the drug and its feel,and try to notice any problems,and if you are not sure go to ER.
Also its just my conspiracy theory that like nardil parnate has changed,i have nothing to back this up other than the fact i have not since the first year on it got a AD reaction as i did then,my first time on it i was back to work in 48 hrs,now its just more like a back bone in a search of better agents.
P.S Print out the company data sheet,keep it handy,its grossly shocking how some ER units can be clueless to it.The young kid in the ride over kept saying it was an allergic reaction to cheese,and i kept telling him no it wasnt.
I refused an IV,and finaly FINALY a toxicologist was called in who although firm with me still made me feel better as he clearl knew the drug,i was given activated charcoal and sent on my way with a 1000 and counting bill.
All in all i could have stayed home,but the cranial hemorage creeps me out and i thought it best to keep my vitals on watch,but i cant believe i had to literaly refuse IV as i had no confidence in what was in it.
> I ate at an Asian restaurant this evening and without realizing it, I probably ate some appetizers that had soy sauce in it. Of course, this being my first day of being on Parnate, I don't think that the drug has built up enough in my system to where I would have a reaction. But it's definitely something that I'll have to watch out for. I'm on 10 mgs of Parnate to start with and will increase to 30 mgs in another 10 days.
>
> thanks-
> Malcolm
>
> >
> > Personaly my no no is soy sauce,so i avoid it 100 percent,beer at risky levels etc are not direct no nos,only when i make mistakes i know i could have and should have avoided,but again soy to my knowledge,oh and imiprimine,which btw is STRONGLY CONTRADICTED are my no nos.
> >
> > I only took supplemental protein when i was on a low end dose of parnate,i had no problem.However i have not since i went as high as i am not,which ranges from 80mg - 130.
> >
> > I personaly think they are a gimmick,i would get my protein from egg yolk,and pure meat like steak hamburgers etc.
> >
> > Im more into carbs now with heavy lifting due to not getting anywhere on using those protien guidelines.After reading and already susprecting i mostly intake carbs,my workouts are less then half,my strentgh is three times,my gh has went from a 190 bench to 300 easy,my weight 189 to my current weight of 245.
> >
> > I have a lot of muscle mass,but i do have body fat,but i suspect its due to MEDS...LACK OF CARDIO.....DEPRESSION ITSELF,CORISTONE.
> >
> > I have to say if lifting is what u r into,id follow some carb routines,google them,its a theory like the protein one,it gives lots of energy and feeds ur body.
> >
> > This is the latetest pic i have taken,as u can see i have a lot of body fat,but im really shocked at the overall mass ive gained,and strentgh.
> >
> > If protein is what u want,id still chuck the colorful drinks bars shakes etc,and stick with old fasioned rocky balboa egg whites,and meat as a source of ur protein.
> >
> > http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/7559/55979691ps5.jpg
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> > > I wondered about whey protein myself. It contains tryptophan (possible risk of serotonin syndrome) and tyrosine, which could provoke a hypertensive crisis in theory. Willyee on here takes Parnate and works out a lot, so I guess he'd know whether it's safe.
> > >
> > > Thai is probably one of the most hazardous diets you could combine with an MAOI unfortunately. And then there's the soy sauce issue. Elizabeth said small amounts are safe but the problem is: are small amounts taken often as safe as small amounts taken occasionally? If tyramine-rich foods are a staple of your diet you could find that although you're eating only small amounts of one tyramine-rich food, there could be several in a single dish. There's also the possibility of accumulation, where small amounts of tyramine linger in the body because of slowed metabolism and build up to toxic levels.
> > >
> > > I have a feeling fish sauces are likely to 'ferment' a little unless they're very fresh, that's probably where most of the flavour comes from but I don't know for certain. I just stuck to simple foods like beans on toast, jam and bread, cereals and a few ready meals and pasta sauces I knew were safe.
> > >
> > > Q
> >
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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