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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by jonh kimble on October 9, 2004, at 23:39:27
hey how are u guys? I post here do to our similar problems and our hopeful recovery. Im 20, going to uni. in florida, orig. from canada. Anyway I want to see a doc here in naples who I believe will be understanding of my situation. I want to go on a regimine of methamphetamine(add nmda antagonist) and clonazepam, and whould love to know how yall got that to work, as in getting doc to understand prob. I dont think theres much litteratue I can show to support that I should be on meth, possibly the most addictive drug known, use a dissacotiative (dxm) to prevent tolerance (which also has no indication for this use) to this med (meth) which I have no indication for its use either, and top it of with another abusable scheduled drug, clono. Oh and I need high doses because drugs dont effect me much(which to them could easily be interpreted as I need my fix so I can continue to screw up my life beyond belief.)While nothing could be farther from the truth. These drugs help me live an objectively good life in which nothing else to my knowledge has or can help. See I have social anxiety with some depression and other anxiety probs. It destroys me. I ahve ended up in three pysch wards ive been so depressed, and to me the answers so simple. I have tried to remedy this with Cbt, standard antidepressants and friendly neighborhood advice. My experience is that doctors simply say that you havent given other options a fair chance (they think waisting five years on the uselessness
isnt enough) and when I push myself to go into a social event and it doesnt work, they say, oh youre obviosly underestimating your performance. Im sure you did fine and this proves to me that you dont have the probs as bad as youve listed. If not for the moral and legal reasons, I would now be a mass murderer. (please dont take that seriously, im just frustrated to the point of insanety) All thats worked is the stims and benzos in general. I currently have 1 mg of clono a day from one doc, and another whose willing to pres. ritalin or dex in adequate doses, which makes me llok like a doctor shopper Im sure.My emails stopwhining@email.com so if theres any thing to discuss that wouldnt be best on this board please, I would love you're feedback! And let me know how I can help you too, totally. Also Im stuck in a uni of hardcore catholics and im a hard core atheist, so if ya wanna talk about, that or anything let me know. Thanks again.
Posted by utopizen on October 10, 2004, at 15:28:38
In reply to Utopizen, ame sans vie, tepiaca......, posted by jonh kimble on October 9, 2004, at 23:39:27
Okay,
I'm telling you straight out, if you plan on going on Desoxyn and Klonopin, take an antidepressant at the very least. I'd be more concerned about taking an antidepressant than anything else. And don't bother yourself with the nmda stuff.
Second, stimulants DO NOT force you to do work, force you to have concentration, or are support to in any way give you "motivation." If you expect that drugs will walk you to the library to do work, etc. like I expect them to do for me, you will be miserable, as much as I am today.
Second, don't take Klonopin for insomnia issues, just in case that's one of your reasons for doing so. It only relaxes you after you adjust to it-- you'd have to take insanely high doses for it to "knock you out," as so many sadly expect a sleep med to do for them. If you desire a drug to literally force yourself to enter sleep, then you need to deal with this issue with a therapist. I use to think I needed a sedative for that reason, and I really regret it.
Third, don't even bother with Desoxyn if you think you will need more than the 20-25mg/day dose. Anyone can convince themselves they need a high dose of any med. There's no reason to think this is a true need, since your mind is the cause of your illness- so stop trusting it! Your mind is the reason why you have mental illness in the first place! So stop listening to it!
Trust me, I listened to my head, and it doesn't work and it's left me miserable. All the medline searches in the world won't do a single thing for you. Trust me, I've basically lived on med research for the past 4 years. And I've only gotten worse since doing it!
A lot of ADD is about accepting that all the medicine in the world won't stop you from having all your symptoms. Desoxyn might help you a bit, but if you're expecting it to kill your procrastination, you're not going to go very far. Give yourself some credit-- you can helpful out without relying ENTIRELY on the meds you take! And even if you can't, learn to live with what you are, not what you could be.
I'm not trying to dis you, I'm trying to avoid seeing you become as miserable as I am. I think you've noticed me and Ame Sans Vie are alike. We try really hard, we have really good intentions, and yet, look at us- we're still here. We're optimists, but it gets less optimistic with each trial. Ultimately, we have to realize there's no cures, and while certain meds might bring some relief, we can't expect the world.
There's a song by the (sadly deceased) singer, Elliot Smith. It's called Junk Bond Trader, and I think you should check it out.
Here's a lyric from it:
I won't take your medicine
I don't need a remedy
To be everything I'm suppose to beElliot Smith died, after stabbing himself in the heart. Maybe he should have taken the medicine, or at the very least listened to his own songs.
When you live for who you are more than who you once thought you could become, you stop becoming a failure and start becoming yourself.
Posted by jonh kimble on October 11, 2004, at 20:07:06
In reply to Re: Utopizen, ame sans vie, tepiaca...... » jonh kimble, posted by utopizen on October 10, 2004, at 15:28:38
ya i know. man I see other people and I see them talk so free and easy, looking like they love every moment of their existence. I walk around hoping i wont have to talk to anyone. im unbearably miserable most of the time but then i take some stims/ benzos and its like I see why people are alive. why people do things, hows possible to make mistakes and by doing so you learn more and have more fun. I remember that beautiful things like love and sex and talking and laughing and achieving and standing up and being proud exist. I live! Then they stop, I feel worse, and like now I cant stand my miserable existence, and like you, Ive waisted years on medline reasearch, probaly spent thousands of dollars on this miracle or that. Why cant I talk to people! Why cant I believe in myself. I really have what youd call avoidant personality. I can talk to someone by forcing myself, and as soon as they show interest in me I evacuate the situation like theres no tomorow. The way things are going I, dont see anything getting better. Why does everyone have to like me? I wanna give group Cognitive Behavioural therapy for social anxiety a shot. Maybe its time to forget the stupid drugs and face this hard and really effective way. What do you think?
Posted by utopizen on October 11, 2004, at 21:17:49
In reply to Re: Utopizen, ame sans vie, tepiaca......, posted by jonh kimble on October 11, 2004, at 20:07:06
no johnh, hang in there. I think I wasn't clear enough for you.
I meant to convey the sense that you will find partial relief-- sometimes a lot of relief from certain conditions- and the rest you need to find relief from doing the things that take courage and commitment to do-- like group therapy, which is especially helpful for social anxiety- and other forms of CBT, and plenty of exercise.
Look, you need to have meds for the rest of your life, and I can't underscore that. The degree of your social anxiety and ADD and such, from what you just posted, is incredibly severe, like mine. You've been through a lot, ever since a kid, and since your ADD leads you to be a day dreamer, my guess is your ambitions are as high as the moon-- which is difficult.
You might daydream sometime of going up in public to give a speech for a lifetime achievement award, and the next minute some new girl walks down the hall and you fumble on your words.
You need to always be on meds, though. Social anxiety and ADD left untreated leads to some very severe depression, and what happened with me is I gave up the antidepressants, took some Klonopin and Desoxyn, but months later got severe depression and was in denial over it. Benzo or not, stimulant or not, antidepressants are vital for someone with symptoms as severe as you or I have them.
Have you tried Cymbalta? I've tried every AD except for Serzone to this stage, and Cymbalta looks promising. The FDA approval came out on my birthday this August, maybe that's a sign.
I don't think Klonopin and Desoxyn are bad ideas. What I was trying to convey to you is that to some extent, some sort of depression can lead to a worsening of anxiety and ADD symptoms. So you need to combine a benzo and a stimulant with an antidepressant at least. And for you, a powerful one-- we're talking high-dose Effexor, or high-dose Cymbalta (I'd try out Cymbalta, see how you do at 60mg, and work up to 120mg if your doctor feels he must to notice improvement).
But this is up to your doc. Look, you need the relief meds bring you. You know that-- you've experienced how it is they make you feel when you've taken them. It sounds like the benzos and stimulants aren't working for you as they use to for you, and that's basically a sign of worsening depression. Fix the depression, and you've fixed the problem of the other meds not working.
I have depression. I really wish I could do all-nighters and work on papers like I'm a genius Kerouac again, but it ain't happening. I have to push myself to go to the library. I have to get myself to leave my dorm room. I have to begin weaning myself off the 'net trying to research this stuff, and I need to start doing that immediately.
You need to try something like Cymbalta. And go for the Klonopin, and the Desoxyn, but don't bank on it or anything. Ask your doc about options to agressively treat your depression. Then, after your dose is at the target level and you're at the stage where you just need to up it incrementally and augment with lithium or some Risperdal or such, then start inquiring about what your DOCTOR thinks of trying Klonopin and Desoxyn.
Be open to his opinion. If he says he wants you to not try it while you're seeing how an antidepressant med might help you, ask if you can get "as needed" Klonopin for your more stressful events. Let him know you're concerned about your ADD symptoms, and want to "explore" other options. Be open to Straterra, and if that fails, then ask him if he's open to the option of trying Desoxyn. Inform him that it has a history of abuse, and be up-front with him. But if you don't find relief from 20-25mg/day, give up, or combine it with Straterra and see how that goes. If you take too much Desoxyn, you will sweat. I had to get $1650 for Botox-A injections over this. I would have been better off taking an antidepressant and not relying on Desoxyn to solve my woes.
When you have depression, amphetamines and benzos are like a band-aide for them. With enough band-aids-- enough doses- you'll hide your wounds. But all you're doing is hiding an infection that is rotting away at your brain. And eventually, all the band-aids in the world can't stop you once your body begins to shut down, you get sleepy, and you can't function. It's no way to live.
Keep the meds. Add CBT. Have your psychiatrist know you're doing CBT. He/she will be more likely to treat you with the serious meds like Klonopin or Desoxyn if he or she is aware that's your honestly comitted to reaching long-term goals, not sticking another band-aid on your brain.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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