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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Waki on August 16, 2004, at 1:55:58
I have insomnia sometimes that excrcise and clean food won't solve. This insomnia is purely because most the meds I take are "up" energy types.
Ambien, kept me slightly sedated for 24 hours after the 8 hours sleep.
Klon also sedatedme for days after.I've been trying Restoril /temazepam and it's is the best thing sense sliced bread wrapped in plastic with wire twisters.
It sdates reduces my anxiety for about 4 hours until i hit a deep sleep. I then appear to sleep solid and on my own for anther 4 hours. I a wake up all fired up ready to attack the world.
Posted by KaraS on August 16, 2004, at 3:18:12
In reply to Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by Waki on August 16, 2004, at 1:55:58
> I have insomnia sometimes that excrcise and clean food won't solve. This insomnia is purely because most the meds I take are "up" energy types.
>
> Ambien, kept me slightly sedated for 24 hours after the 8 hours sleep.
> Klon also sedatedme for days after.
>
> I've been trying Restoril /temazepam and it's is the best thing sense sliced bread wrapped in plastic with wire twisters.
>
> It sdates reduces my anxiety for about 4 hours until i hit a deep sleep. I then appear to sleep solid and on my own for anther 4 hours. I a wake up all fired up ready to attack the world.
>
Can that be taken long-term or just on an as-needed basis?
Posted by Waki on August 16, 2004, at 4:16:34
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by KaraS on August 16, 2004, at 3:18:12
Well rather it's right or wrong. My treatment program is highly focusing on my gatting a nice sleep. Some articles say not to take it too long. My oarticular p-doc states lets saty on it for a long enoght period to get my sleep in order and not bias my depresion by being tired.
To answer you question , we have decided to take it longer term
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 16, 2004, at 6:31:21
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by KaraS on August 16, 2004, at 3:18:12
> > I have insomnia sometimes that excrcise and clean food won't solve. This insomnia is purely because most the meds I take are "up" energy types.
> >
> > Ambien, kept me slightly sedated for 24 hours after the 8 hours sleep.
> > Klon also sedatedme for days after.
> >
> > I've been trying Restoril /temazepam and it's is the best thing sense sliced bread wrapped in plastic with wire twisters.
> >
> > It sdates reduces my anxiety for about 4 hours until i hit a deep sleep. I then appear to sleep solid and on my own for anther 4 hours. I a wake up all fired up ready to attack the world.
> >
>
>
> Can that be taken long-term or just on an as-needed basis?First, I want to say that temazepam had the same miraculously restorative effect in me.
Second, about long-term use. There is the standard "anti-benzo" policy that I keep seeing in other aspects of benzodiazepine therapies being applied to temazepam as a sleep aid. I.e. "only for short-term therapy, not to exceed 4-6 weeks". Bollocks.
I could show you articles in the literatue demonstrating efficacy after 17 years. After using temazepam with great effect for about 18 months, my pdoc decided to "fix what ain't broke", and withdrew me from temazepam in favour of Remeron. Thus began a horror-story of weight gain and sexual dysfunction (yes, mirtazapine causes sexual dysfunction, despite claims to the contrary) and sleep disturbance (yes, I know it's supposed to help there too). After adding in trazadone (fourth trial of that....feels like all the pleasure of a hangover without the fun of the drunk the night before), he reluctantly let me go back to temazepam, but it didn't work as well as it had before. :-/
So, right now I take 30 mg temazepam QHS, along with 25 mg trimipramine (a sedating tricyclic), also QHS, and .3-.4 mg melatonin. Seems to work OK most nights, but I wish I got the temazepam effect I started out with. It was gloriously restorative. Miraculously so.
Lar
Posted by reefer on August 17, 2004, at 7:34:09
In reply to Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by Waki on August 16, 2004, at 1:55:58
Do you mostly have trouble falling asleep or do you also suffer from waking up in the middle of the night? I sometimes have trouble falling asleep or waking up in the middle of the night and then have trouble falling asleep. Sonata(Zaleplon) works great for this since i can take it as late as 4 hours before it's time to rise and shine. Zaleplon has a half-life of less than 1 hour so it's really great for putting me to sleep but wont keep you sleeping all night long if u have trouble with waking up in the middle of the night. And i feel absolutly no sedation at all on awakening. I'm looking forward to the new meds Eszopiclone and Indiplon looking really promising. Eszopiclone is prolly gonna be launched very soon under the trade name Estorra.
Posted by spingirl on August 17, 2004, at 8:37:10
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 16, 2004, at 6:31:21
> So, right now I take 30 mg temazepam QHS, along with 25 mg trimipramine (a sedating tricyclic)What's the brand name for this, please? I was awake until 3AM this morning. Luckily, this is my day off work.
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 17, 2004, at 10:50:11
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by spingirl on August 17, 2004, at 8:37:10
>
> > So, right now I take 30 mg temazepam QHS, along with 25 mg trimipramine (a sedating tricyclic)
>
> What's the brand name for this, please? I was awake until 3AM this morning. Luckily, this is my day off work.
>
>Temazepam is Restoril. Trimipramine is Surmontil. Two alternatives for the latter are amitriptyline (Elavil), or doxepin (Sinequan).
Lar
Posted by WAKI on August 17, 2004, at 13:48:35
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by reefer on August 17, 2004, at 7:34:09
I have trouble falling a sleep, I wake up throughout the night. I then was taking a nap or naps during the day. I estimate that at least 30% if not more of my depression was poor sleep. I would be in a "funk" "zombie" stage every 4 days for a couple days until I napped and revived some.
I love this Restoril, it also gives me normal pleasany dreams.
That Strattera was really messing me up I had the craziest dreams.
This is embarrasing but funny. I need to laugh at myself more anyway. A few weeks ago I had a dream about my college football days.
We were playing Ohio State. I sacked Mike Tomzack the QB of Ohio State, remember him he used to play for the Bears and Pittsburg?
Anyway I hit him so hard I knocked his helmet off and the ball fumbled. I scrambled and jumped and grabed the ball. I woke up I was on the ground. I had jumped off my bed looking for the ball. I was still in a daze and tried to go back to sleep to get back in the game. That is just one of the crazy dreams I had. All were about 15 to 20 years ago.
In summary I am sleeping really well and "normal" on this Restoril.
I am feeling so lucky and fortunate lately with all the success I am having with my treatment. I read other message posts and remember the feeling. I find myself sort of feeling bad for feeling good.
This message board is a god send for me. I'm kind of a high pride 100% guy type of person. I am embaressed to tell anybody 99% of what goes on in my head. I feel like a crazy person (I know there is no crazy people) and can't bring myself to expell my thoughts and experiences. I don't think anybody I know would understand any of the experiences I have.
I am feeling so relieved my issues are leaving my mind. I think i was creating an enourmous amount of anxiety "faking normal." I mentioned this before but at one time I had a PHd Phychologist as a girlfriend, a Masters degreed Psych Nurse and an ER doc. Each of these women I faked to be normal. When I look back you would not believe the energy I used to fake being normal.
Every minute of the day I acted being normal. Whats really ill is I did not know I was faking it. Dumb me I thought everyone battled the war of life acting content.
Anyway, I rambled again but it felt good to get this off my conscience so it was therapy for me.
Cheers,
M8
Posted by alesta on August 17, 2004, at 14:06:52
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril, posted by WAKI on August 17, 2004, at 13:48:35
waki,
i'm always here to listen, if you need me. besides, what the hell is normal? we all have to put on a persona to some degree in public, i think. so then everybody seems normal. you don't have to be normal. just be your nice self. i think more creative people probably have a tendency to be weirder than others anyway. i should know...:)but, i reiterate, i put on such a good front, you would never know it....there are so many more interesting things to think about...the greek goddess
Posted by KaraS on August 17, 2004, at 16:10:02
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 16, 2004, at 6:31:21
> > > I have insomnia sometimes that excrcise and clean food won't solve. This insomnia is purely because most the meds I take are "up" energy types.
> > >
> > > Ambien, kept me slightly sedated for 24 hours after the 8 hours sleep.
> > > Klon also sedatedme for days after.
> > >
> > > I've been trying Restoril /temazepam and it's is the best thing sense sliced bread wrapped in plastic with wire twisters.
> > >
> > > It sdates reduces my anxiety for about 4 hours until i hit a deep sleep. I then appear to sleep solid and on my own for anther 4 hours. I a wake up all fired up ready to attack the world.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Can that be taken long-term or just on an as-needed basis?
>
> First, I want to say that temazepam had the same miraculously restorative effect in me.
>
> Second, about long-term use. There is the standard "anti-benzo" policy that I keep seeing in other aspects of benzodiazepine therapies being applied to temazepam as a sleep aid. I.e. "only for short-term therapy, not to exceed 4-6 weeks". Bollocks.
Isn't that similar to the situation with Ambien?
Some people can take it long-term but others do develop tolerance (though the proportion of people developing tolerance is less that with the benzos). Correct?
> I could show you articles in the literatue demonstrating efficacy after 17 years. After using temazepam with great effect for about 18 months, my pdoc decided to "fix what ain't broke", and withdrew me from temazepam in favour of Remeron. Thus began a horror-story of weight gain and sexual dysfunction (yes, mirtazapine causes sexual dysfunction, despite claims to the contrary) and sleep disturbance (yes, I know it's supposed to help there too). After adding in trazadone (fourth trial of that....feels like all the pleasure of a hangover without the fun of the drunk the night before), he reluctantly let me go back to temazepam, but it didn't work as well as it had before. :-/
I took trazadone for sleep for a short while too. The nausea and grogginess just never went away. It was horrible stuff for me.Regarding your experience with Restoril and SJW as well as my experience with maca, I just don't understand how something can effect the same person so differently when tried a little while later. If the stuff stopped working the first time you took it and then you try it again at a later date and it doesn't work well, I could understand it. But when it works fine, you stop and then start again, it should work the same way damn it! It just doesn't make sense to me. It's hard enough finding things that work but to have them not work again for no reason.... it's like we're always trying to hit a moving target.
> So, right now I take 30 mg temazepam QHS, along with 25 mg trimipramine (a sedating tricyclic), also QHS, and .3-.4 mg melatonin. Seems to work OK most nights, but I wish I got the temazepam effect I started out with. It was gloriously restorative. Miraculously so.
>
> Lar
>What about the taurine? Are you still taking that? Also, what is QHS? I'm kind of surprised that you took the Remeron. It must be hard dealing wtih doctors when you probably know more than most of them out there...
Kara
Posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2004, at 7:06:22
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril » Larry Hoover, posted by KaraS on August 17, 2004, at 16:10:02
> > Second, about long-term use. There is the standard "anti-benzo" policy that I keep seeing in other aspects of benzodiazepine therapies being applied to temazepam as a sleep aid. I.e. "only for short-term therapy, not to exceed 4-6 weeks". Bollocks.
>
>
> Isn't that similar to the situation with Ambien?Ya, and some doctors and some HMOs treat that as "the facts". Short-term, now go away.
> Some people can take it long-term but others do develop tolerance (though the proportion of people developing tolerance is less that with the benzos). Correct?
Ya, it's quite similar. Probably means there are different disorders with similar symptoms, though. Or it could just be luck of the draw.
> I took trazadone for sleep for a short while too. The nausea and grogginess just never went away. It was horrible stuff for me.Horrible stuff. I once did a straight trial of it as an antidepressant. Something like 300 mg/day. Whoa.
> Regarding your experience with Restoril and SJW as well as my experience with maca, I just don't understand how something can effect the same person so differently when tried a little while later. If the stuff stopped working the first time you took it and then you try it again at a later date and it doesn't work well, I could understand it. But when it works fine, you stop and then start again, it should work the same way damn it!Well, I like your rules just fine.
> It just doesn't make sense to me.
Me either.
> It's hard enough finding things that work but to have them not work again for no reason.... it's like we're always trying to hit a moving target.
But, we are.
> > So, right now I take 30 mg temazepam QHS, along with 25 mg trimipramine (a sedating tricyclic), also QHS, and .3-.4 mg melatonin. Seems to work OK most nights, but I wish I got the temazepam effect I started out with. It was gloriously restorative. Miraculously so.
> >
> > Lar
> >
>
> What about the taurine? Are you still taking that?Not daily, certainly. As needed. If I get that brain-cramp sort of feeling, I taurinate. Works great. Just have to watch the clock, and dose accordingly. Despite the fact it suppresses activating neurotransmitters, it activates my cognition, and adversely affects sleep.
> Also, what is QHS?
Latin for "in the hour of sleep". (Taking Latin out of the high school curriculum was very short-sighted, IMHO, but I am a geek.)
http://www.uspharmd.com/rxsig.htm
> I'm kind of surprised that you took the Remeron. It must be hard dealing wtih doctors when you probably know more than most of them out there...
>
> KaraI wasn't given a choice. It was Remeron or nothing. I already knew what it was like to suddenly go off temazepam (rebound insomnia; long story), so that was kind of hung over my head like a knife, eh?
Well, I know more about *some things* than a lot of doctors do.
Lar
Posted by KaraS on August 19, 2004, at 14:26:01
In reply to Re: Bye Bye Ambien, Hello Restoril » KaraS, posted by Larry Hoover on August 19, 2004, at 7:06:22
> > > Second, about long-term use. There is the standard "anti-benzo" policy that I keep seeing in other aspects of benzodiazepine therapies being applied to temazepam as a sleep aid. I.e. "only for short-term therapy, not to exceed 4-6 weeks". Bollocks.
> >
> >
> > Isn't that similar to the situation with Ambien?
>
> Ya, and some doctors and some HMOs treat that as "the facts". Short-term, now go away.
Exactly. It's so hard to find doctors willing to think outside of the box.
> > Some people can take it long-term but others do develop tolerance (though the proportion of people developing tolerance is less that with the benzos). Correct?
>
> Ya, it's quite similar. Probably means there are different disorders with similar symptoms, though. Or it could just be luck of the draw.
>
> > I took trazadone for sleep for a short while too. The nausea and grogginess just never went away. It was horrible stuff for me.
>
> Horrible stuff. I once did a straight trial of it as an antidepressant. Something like 300 mg/day. Whoa.
Whoa is right. I took a small amount for sleep and I still remember the effects. I can only imagine what 300 mgs. was like.
> > Regarding your experience with Restoril and SJW as well as my experience with maca, I just don't understand how something can effect the same person so differently when tried a little while later. If the stuff stopped working the first time you took it and then you try it again at a later date and it doesn't work well, I could understand it. But when it works fine, you stop and then start again, it should work the same way damn it!
>
> Well, I like your rules just fine.
>
> > It just doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Me either.
>
> > It's hard enough finding things that work but to have them not work again for no reason.... it's like we're always trying to hit a moving target.
>
> But, we are.
Sad but true I guess.
> > > So, right now I take 30 mg temazepam QHS, along with 25 mg trimipramine (a sedating tricyclic), also QHS, and .3-.4 mg melatonin. Seems to work OK most nights, but I wish I got the temazepam effect I started out with. It was gloriously restorative. Miraculously so.
> > >
> > > Lar
> > >
> >
> > What about the taurine? Are you still taking that?
>
> Not daily, certainly. As needed. If I get that brain-cramp sort of feeling, I taurinate. Works great. Just have to watch the clock, and dose accordingly. Despite the fact it suppresses activating neurotransmitters, it activates my cognition, and adversely affects sleep.
Oh, I thought it was helping with your sleep. Maybe you were just hoping it would help with it.
> > Also, what is QHS?
>
> Latin for "in the hour of sleep". (Taking Latin out of the high school curriculum was very short-sighted, IMHO, but I am a geek.)
>
> http://www.uspharmd.com/rxsig.htm
Thanks. Great site! Will come in handy I'm sure.
> > I'm kind of surprised that you took the Remeron. It must be hard dealing wtih doctors when you probably know more than most of them out there...
> >
> > Kara
>
> I wasn't given a choice. It was Remeron or nothing. I already knew what it was like to suddenly go off temazepam (rebound insomnia; long story), so that was kind of hung over my head like a knife, eh?What a creep! I'd say more but I'd get reprimanded.
-K
>
> Well, I know more about *some things* than a lot of doctors do.
>
> Lar
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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