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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 4 of 4. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LAURA777 on February 5, 2003, at 17:10:53
Tell me please , what does rat behavior responses to drugs have to do with how humans will respond ?? i am speaking in terms of the drugs that can make us feel well .. they have made many drugs that have not made it to human testing because they showed addictive properties with rats !!! A rats brain is so simplified , thier ability to reason is some but not near where we can .. to my knowledge i have never seen a rat or a monkey at a university studying molecular biology .. nor have i seen much empathy amoung them , They eat their own babies for petes sake !!!
If you give a simple minded creature the full ability to get a drug that will keep it in euphoria when ever he pushes a lever or has to proform some menial task i am not surprised that he well go for it each and every time .. to the exclusion of everything else .. even unto death ..he has no ability to reason , only to some very small extent .. There are no other mitigating factors in it's life ...
we know our main addictive drugs because humans have been addicted to them for centuries , well before we started playing with rats ..
What i'm saying is there might be alot of effective dopamine reuptake inhibitors that could have benefited me greatly , and i don't get them because some simple minded rat can't stop pressing a lever .. any thoughts .. thanks laura ..ps i know we need rat experimentation to see what drugs may likley do to us physically ..
Posted by utopizen on February 5, 2003, at 17:51:22
In reply to RAT BEHAVIOR VERSES HUMAN BEHAVIOR DRUGS, posted by LAURA777 on February 5, 2003, at 17:10:53
Okay, first, please re-direct this to the social board.
Second, I like rats. They eat their pups only in times when they are the product of infancy, as a means to relieve a pup from living with deformities. Here, we call someone who has their child live with deformities after incest "religious" and "God-loving." But that's another topic and another picketing. But you make it sound like they sort of randomly eat their pups when they're hungry! Gosh, that is just misleading and down right untrue.
In the meantime, curedisease.org has some great info on why no one on this board will ever get treated.
Posted by viridis on February 8, 2003, at 3:43:59
In reply to RAT BEHAVIOR VERSES HUMAN BEHAVIOR DRUGS, posted by LAURA777 on February 5, 2003, at 17:10:53
The brains of rats aren't any "simpler'" or less complex than ours; different areas are just more highly developed in the two species. For example, the regions that deal with response to odors are much more sophisticated in rats than humans. And, rats have a very well-developed set of neuronal pathways that relate to social behavior. There's vastly much more similarity than difference in rat and human brains, and the genes that control their function. And, rats feel emotions too, experience stress, depression, etc.
Of course, rodents respond differently to many drugs than humans, but the basic pathways are extremely similar, so they really are a good model, at least as a first test to look at the basics of how experimental meds work and alert us to potential risks. Chimpanzees would be a better model, but much more difficult to work with from a practical, humanitarian, and paperwork point of view.
I find all of this sad, but necessary, since I hate to see any animal suffer. But rats, mice, etc. have provided tremendous insights into how the brain works, and how psychiatric meds operate at a molecular and physiological level.
Posted by utopizen on February 8, 2003, at 15:59:46
In reply to Re: RAT BEHAVIOR VERSES HUMAN BEHAVIOR DRUGS, posted by viridis on February 8, 2003, at 3:43:59
You know, you do realize people have suffered as a result of the insights we have gained from animal studies? They are indisputably misleading to a certain extent, obviously, and this will indisputably lead to people dying to some extent. It's not so much "if as long as we bury our conscience for the animals it'll help people". Both get hurt, and will continue to do so, so long as research methodologists who are exploring alternative models to design are so under-funded.
They deserve more funding, and these silly arguments we give out that assume there's just nothing we can do about it allow them to be so under-funded. This isn't some science run by the gods, there's measurable change we can bring that we're ignoring. And it's a self-fulfilling prophecy each time people say alternative models can't emulate animal models as much, because that just leads us to under-fund methodologists who are trying to make better alternative models.
This is the end of the thread.
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