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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fairnymph on July 22, 2002, at 13:09:37
I started taking WB SR on the 12th. that first day I took 100 mg, then as I was toleratinb it wel I moved up to 200 mg the following day. I stayed at that for a whlie, again, tolerating it well, and then moved up to 300 mg. Two days after starting at 300 mg, I stayed up all night...and throughout the following day.
I had taken 1,25 mg ativan + 1 mg xanax a few hours before to help me try and sleep. At the end of the aforementioned day, I was lying on my bf's bed and looked up at the ceiling. I was not feeling the effects of the benzos at this point, however I saw swarms of ants crawling across it. While this did not scarew me, I thought it was a little weird, so I had my bf come take a look. He told me that there were no ants (so while we were both looking I saw them while he did not). I then got up to take a closer look and indeed saw that my bf was right. But when I lay back down, I could see the ants again swarming.
Then I looked over at my bf, who looked very worried, and he appeared to have a toothpick or wooden skewer in his mouth. Quickly these objects morphed into a rainbow-metallic steel cagelike muzzle (yes, on my bf's face!). I told my bf this, and he became even more worried, and as he came closer the muzzle thing disappeared.
Following this, I looked over at the stucco wall a foot from the bed and see spirarily and squirming patterns, moving quite rapidly. Reminds me a bit of previous psychedelic experiences. As I looked at the stucco longer, the textured peices of the stucco began moving. Soon I saw the forms of humans appearing within the stucco. They were moving around and I began to hear faint music playing (sounded like a string quartet or something of the like). There were maybe 15-20 adults (mixed company) and there seemed to be a dinner table. People are laughing and gesturing. As I keep looking at the (white)stucco, I began to see colors, first pastels then darker...almost as if the scene is being coloured in.
I felt very alert and wired (despite the benzos and sleep deprivation). No anxiety or fear in response to hte hallucinatios.
I know that psychosis/hallucinations can occur with wellbutrin OD, but I did not take too much WB...and although psychosis/hallucinations can occur even at clinical doses, it is very rare and I have not experienced anything like this in the days prior.
I am NOT prone to visual disutrubances or hallucinations (never hadthe latter until now).
I went back down to 250 mg yesterday, but even today I am feeling weird and having mild visual disturbances. I'm not sure I would even feel safe driving. And I had a good 9 hours of heavy sleep last night.
Are these effects going to subside? Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Suggestions?
I am taking the WB for depression, however I also suffer from OCD. I have no history of schizophrenia in my family.
Posted by katekite on July 22, 2002, at 14:25:43
In reply to HELP! hand tremors + hallucinations on Wellbutrin, posted by fairnymph on July 22, 2002, at 13:09:37
The half-life of Wellbutrin SR is around 20-40 hours (different in different people). If you happen to metabolize it on the slower end of that you would therefore need much less of a dose per day compared to someone who metabolized it more quickly.
So 250 or 300 might be an overdose, for you.
If you continue to take 250 mg a day it will take a long long time for it to get back down into a healthy range. I would not take any at all for at least a day, then restart it at 200 mg to be safe. Rest that poor brain.
You should call your doctor and discuss this, today. Hallucinations are not to be taken lightly. Just because the ants weren't scary, doesn't mean that the next time it happens you will be ok. Driving is certainly out.
I would recommend considering either switching anti-depressants entirely or staying at 200 and adding a small dose of a second anti-depressant.
You have now found out what is an overdose for you. Had you continued to take 300, it probably would not have gotten better, but instead, gotten worse. Maybe your brain would have adjusted, but maybe not.
250 is awful close to 300, in my mind.
Better safe than sorry. Call your doctor and until you talk to them, go back to a dose you know for sure is safe (ie 200, not 250). Taking a break from it for a day will help levels fall quickly into a healthier range.
Scary!
Kate
Posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 14:56:23
In reply to HELP! hand tremors + hallucinations on Wellbutrin, posted by fairnymph on July 22, 2002, at 13:09:37
I know this is a sensitive question, but have you ever used LSD or any psychedelic drugs in the past?
For some people with a history of psychedelic drug use, certain psych meds, especially ones that work on dopamine, can trigger episodes like the one you described.
I don't think there is much you can do except wait for it to pass and then don't take that med again.
I think this is called something like "Persistent Hallucinogen Perception Disturbance", and it is known that it can be brought on, after years of being symptom free, by some medications.
> I started taking WB SR on the 12th. that first day I took 100 mg, then as I was toleratinb it wel I moved up to 200 mg the following day. I stayed at that for a whlie, again, tolerating it well, and then moved up to 300 mg. Two days after starting at 300 mg, I stayed up all night...and throughout the following day.
>
> I had taken 1,25 mg ativan + 1 mg xanax a few hours before to help me try and sleep. At the end of the aforementioned day, I was lying on my bf's bed and looked up at the ceiling. I was not feeling the effects of the benzos at this point, however I saw swarms of ants crawling across it. While this did not scarew me, I thought it was a little weird, so I had my bf come take a look. He told me that there were no ants (so while we were both looking I saw them while he did not). I then got up to take a closer look and indeed saw that my bf was right. But when I lay back down, I could see the ants again swarming.
>
> Then I looked over at my bf, who looked very worried, and he appeared to have a toothpick or wooden skewer in his mouth. Quickly these objects morphed into a rainbow-metallic steel cagelike muzzle (yes, on my bf's face!). I told my bf this, and he became even more worried, and as he came closer the muzzle thing disappeared.
>
> Following this, I looked over at the stucco wall a foot from the bed and see spirarily and squirming patterns, moving quite rapidly. Reminds me a bit of previous psychedelic experiences. As I looked at the stucco longer, the textured peices of the stucco began moving. Soon I saw the forms of humans appearing within the stucco. They were moving around and I began to hear faint music playing (sounded like a string quartet or something of the like). There were maybe 15-20 adults (mixed company) and there seemed to be a dinner table. People are laughing and gesturing. As I keep looking at the (white)stucco, I began to see colors, first pastels then darker...almost as if the scene is being coloured in.
>
> I felt very alert and wired (despite the benzos and sleep deprivation). No anxiety or fear in response to hte hallucinatios.
>
> I know that psychosis/hallucinations can occur with wellbutrin OD, but I did not take too much WB...and although psychosis/hallucinations can occur even at clinical doses, it is very rare and I have not experienced anything like this in the days prior.
>
> I am NOT prone to visual disutrubances or hallucinations (never hadthe latter until now).
>
> I went back down to 250 mg yesterday, but even today I am feeling weird and having mild visual disturbances. I'm not sure I would even feel safe driving. And I had a good 9 hours of heavy sleep last night.
>
> Are these effects going to subside? Has anyone else experienced anything like this? Suggestions?
>
> I am taking the WB for depression, however I also suffer from OCD. I have no history of schizophrenia in my family.
Posted by fairnymph on July 22, 2002, at 18:11:06
In reply to Re: HELP! hand tremors + hallucinations on Wellbutrin » fairnymph, posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 14:56:23
> I know this is a sensitive question, but have you ever used LSD or any psychedelic drugs in the past?
>
> For some people with a history of psychedelic drug use, certain psych meds, especially ones that work on dopamine, can trigger episodes like the one you described.
>
> I don't think there is much you can do except wait for it to pass and then don't take that med again.
>
> I think this is called something like "Persistent Hallucinogen Perception Disturbance", and it is known that it can be brought on, after years of being symptom free, by some medications.
>
I don't have HPPD. I have used psychedelics on a few occasions (fewer than five) and I have never had a 'bad 'trip' nor have I ever hallucinated or seen anything resembling this recent experience.I have used amphetamines in the past, but NEVER had any psychosis as a result. I'm not prone to psychosis at all and as I said earlier, I am not a very 'visual' person and had far fewer visuals (or none)that most when using psychedelic drugs.
Are you suggesting that i go off the WB for good? I really am at the end of my tether as far as antidepressants go and up until now I was tolerating it really well....so I'd like to stay on it at least for now.
I will defnitely go down in dosage though. Thanks.
Posted by James on July 22, 2002, at 20:39:51
In reply to Re: HELP! hand tremors + hallucinations on Wellbutrin, posted by fairnymph on July 22, 2002, at 18:11:06
I had a somewhat similar experience on the Wellbutrin also. I don't remember what the dosage was, but it happened at a time when I was going on a pstim holiday to try and alleviate some of the poop-out/tolerance from Adderall. So my pdoc gave me Welbutrin in an attempt to keep me afloat during that time. Wedid the drug holiday over a two week vacation I had from school. Well, damn did it keep me afloat. And it was not fun at all. I have never tried LSD or other hallucinogins, but I have smoked some bud with some pretty tripped out stuff sprayed on it. And anything I felt from that isn't even a shadow of what the Welbutrin trip felt like.
Don't get me wrong, by the way, I am in no way promoting the use of any of the former illegal substances, nor am I an abuser myself. But the Welbutrin was definitely a mistake. Not only did it send me into a vicious manic state, it prompted some of those hallucinations that you spoke about. Its actually kind of funny, because I also thought I saw stuff on the ceiling, in my case it was mice/rats coming out of cracks. The subsequent mania that the Welbutrin induced was the first time I had ever had any psychotyic-like symptoms while manic-and it looks like it opened the floodgates for me. Meaning that now I can get that kind of stuff when I get very manic-and I have. I don’t have any recommendations for you—cause hey I’m not your doctor. But, I can tell you that my mother ran into a Wellbutrin drug rep at a different doctor’s office and managed to pester him about the incident. (She herself was pretty concerned, I had been at home at the time I got psychotic). He told her that “yes, stuff like that has been reported but those side effects are relatively rare”. My mom told him “rare? Isn’t once a little much you evil idiot.” Poor evil guy. Anyways, so ask your pdoc to talk to the Welbutrin people (I don’t remember which cruel money-hungry profit craving vicious sadistic drug manifactuer makes it, but you pdoc will know. Hope that was helpful.
--James
Posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 20:41:54
In reply to Re: HELP! hand tremors + hallucinations on Wellbutrin, posted by fairnymph on July 22, 2002, at 18:11:06
You could try the reduced Wellbutrin dosage.
Regardless of the cause, I would bet that it goes away with continued Wellbutrin use.
> > I know this is a sensitive question, but have you ever used LSD or any psychedelic drugs in the past?
> >
> > For some people with a history of psychedelic drug use, certain psych meds, especially ones that work on dopamine, can trigger episodes like the one you described.
> >
> > I don't think there is much you can do except wait for it to pass and then don't take that med again.
> >
> > I think this is called something like "Persistent Hallucinogen Perception Disturbance", and it is known that it can be brought on, after years of being symptom free, by some medications.
> >
>
>
> I don't have HPPD. I have used psychedelics on a few occasions (fewer than five) and I have never had a 'bad 'trip' nor have I ever hallucinated or seen anything resembling this recent experience.
>
> I have used amphetamines in the past, but NEVER had any psychosis as a result. I'm not prone to psychosis at all and as I said earlier, I am not a very 'visual' person and had far fewer visuals (or none)that most when using psychedelic drugs.
>
> Are you suggesting that i go off the WB for good? I really am at the end of my tether as far as antidepressants go and up until now I was tolerating it really well....so I'd like to stay on it at least for now.
>
> I will defnitely go down in dosage though. Thanks.
Posted by hildi on July 23, 2002, at 20:46:34
In reply to Re: HELP! hand tremors + hallucinations on Wellbutrin » fairnymph, posted by fachad on July 22, 2002, at 14:56:23
Hi. Did you say that certain drugs that act on dopamine can create a flashback experience?
Effexor acts on dopamine receptors, doesn't it? If so, and if this is true, this may help explain some of the sensations I had while on a brief trial of effexor. Very interesting Also scary.
Hildi.
This is the end of the thread.
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