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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JDavid on December 28, 2001, at 6:53:58
Hello to everybody,
I suffer of Dystimye (anergetic, unfocused, apaty, unprojective, without desires, etc...).
AD didn't help me at all, they caused a reduction of my energy and my feelings: it was a disaster!
I think I need a real pure stimulant and i know one of the best known is Adderal:
Does any of you use it? Any experience about it?
How does it works? Right effects and side effects?
Please help me understand if it coul be my way of recovery!
I thank you very much indeed for your help!
Bye
Posted by nightlight on December 28, 2001, at 8:43:35
In reply to ADDERAL: please help to know!, posted by JDavid on December 28, 2001, at 6:53:58
Hi,
I'm on Adderall, plus other meds. Are u on anything else? What are your dosages? How long on Adderall? Do u have a specific diagnosis?How did it make you feel 'crummy'?
More info, and I will answer later today-am off to work for now (& only b/c Adderall has helped me so much in past 2 months w/energy levels and renewed interest in life!)
Please respond, as I am very interested in those who may or must use stimulents for achieving wakefulness and quality of life, not to mention remission of depressive symptoms.
ps-just realized you have tried A-D's unsuccessfully-me, too. Please list them, we can compare notes- I def'ly needed a stim. and it has helped a good bit, but is not a panacea.I am still, after many yrs., trying out various A-D's! I have been recently dx'd ADD, plus other stuff. More later~
Sincerely~
nightlight> Hello to everybody,
> I suffer of Dystimye (anergetic, unfocused, apaty, unprojective, without desires, etc...).
> AD didn't help me at all, they caused a reduction of my energy and my feelings: it was a disaster!
> I think I need a real pure stimulant and i know one of the best known is Adderal:
> Does any of you use it? Any experience about it?
> How does it works? Right effects and side effects?
> Please help me understand if it coul be my way of recovery!
> I thank you very much indeed for your help!
> Bye
Posted by cmcdougall on December 28, 2001, at 10:23:24
In reply to Re: ADDERAL: please help to know! » JDavid, posted by nightlight on December 28, 2001, at 8:43:35
Hello,
I take Adderall and LOVE it. I have had chronic major depression for many years and been on several different drugs. I was also diagnosed w/ ADD about 7 years ago and took Ritalin 20mg/3xday until October of this year.
For my depression, I took Prozac for about 3 months when it first came out - it made me feel jittery, plus I gained 20 lbs. Next I tried Desyrel (trazodone). It seemed to work pretty well but over several years I had to keep increasing the dose until I was up to 300mg per day. When that dose started to poop out, I really couldn't go any higher because trazodone is sooo sedating. I still take a little trazodone at night to help me sleep.
After that I tried Pamelor, but only for a week - It made me feel jittery and out of control, so I tried Serzone. That worked well for several years although I did increase the dose several times. Eventually I was taking 150mg Serzone twice a day.
When Serzone pooped out, I took EffexorXR. At first it seemed to work really well, but that turned out to be an illusion. I took 150mg/day for about 6 months and eventually ended up taking 300mg/day for about another year. When I finally realized Effexor had pooped out, I was headed for a severe depressive episode that landed me in the psych ward for a few days. My Effexor withdrawal was horrible, but thats on a different thread.
Now I take Celexa 40mg/day for the depression. I also take Desipramine 25mg/2xday for fatigue and "nap attacks", and Adderall 20mg/3xday for the ADD and lack of motivation. At night I take 50-100mg of trazodone to sleep, and if at any time I have anxiety I take Xanax (but I hardly ever need to).
I have been on this current drug cocktail for 8 weeks now and feel the best I've felt since I can remember. I am hopeful it will work for a few years.
I am interested to hear your experiences. Good luck.
Carly
Posted by IsoM on December 28, 2001, at 13:46:57
In reply to for jdavid and nightlight, posted by cmcdougall on December 28, 2001, at 10:23:24
I'm not trying to push adrafinil (Olmifon) but wanted to try to explain the remarkable differences I feel between adrafinil & Dexedrine or Adderall. Because it's done SO MUCH for me, doesn't mean it will for everyone. If someone had told me before I ever tried adrafinil that I wouldn't want to use other stims, I wouldn't have believed them. My problems may be different from yours & it may account for the reason adrafinil works so well for me. I have mild narcolepsy (I won't actually fall asleep doing things but have to fight drowsiness & yawning all day, plus have the other symptoms of it), have ADHD, & depression & have trouble eating when depressed - anorexia, I can get too skinny. I honestly consider it my "wonder" drug.
I tried to put the comparison in an easy-to-read format.
Differences between Olmifon (adrafinil) & Dexedrine or Adderall
ADRAFINIL -appetite normal, food tastes good
DEXEDRINE -appetite reduced, but still hungry, food tastes okay only
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -hungry, but don’t feel like eating, food tastes okay only
**************************************************
ADRAFINIL -quiet, gentle, even motivation
DEXEDRINE -slight motivation
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -no motivation at all
*************************************************
ADRAFINIL -very calm, relaxed alertness
DEXEDRINE -slightly jittery alertness
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -slightly jittery, but trouble staying alert
************************************************
ADRAFINIL -good short-term & working memory
DEXEDRINE -still poor short-term & working memory
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -poor short-term & working memory
*************************************************
ADRAFINIL -focus is good & effortless
DEXEDRINE -focus is good but on everything at once, not selective
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -focus is poor
**************************************************
ADRAFINIL -can stay awake easily in daytime & fall asleep easily at night
DEXEDRINE -can stay awake when busy but can still sleep through dose too, no improved night sleep
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -always feel sleepy, poor night sleep
************************************************
ADRAFINIL -effects long-lasting & continuous
DEXEDRINE -effects wear off as dose wears off
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -n/a
**************************************************
ADRAFINIL -elevated mood & sociability
DEXEDRINE -elevated mood & sociability but a little too hyper (don't know when to shut up)
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -ordinary mood, slightly down
************************************************
ADRAFINIL -no yawning or sleepiness
DEXEDRINE -no sleepiness but still yawn WITHOUT ANY STIMS -very sleepy & lots of yawning
**************************************************
ADRAFINIL -ease of sticking to one task & doing it even if boring job (doesn’t seem so boring)DEXEDRINE -difficulty in sticking to just one task, want to jump around from one to another
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -difficulty in wanting to even do anything unless something or someone stimulates me
**************************************************
ADRAFINIL -feel much brighter & clear-headed
DEXEDRINE -feel much brighter but kind of scatter-brained
WITHOUT ANY STIMS -feel dopey & forgetful much of the time
Posted by JDavid on December 29, 2001, at 6:54:19
In reply to ADDERAL: please help to know!, posted by JDavid on December 28, 2001, at 6:53:58
Hi to everybody,
I'm not on Adderal yet, i've not find out in what european country i could buy it! But i want to try with this stimulant.
I was on all kind of ssri (paroxetine, sertraline, venlafaxine, fluoxetine, ecc...) and other ad (amisulpride) and any Tca, but i suffer of dizziness and drowsiness without any right effect on mood and energy.
Using ad my diseases seem to get worse, so i think stim. could be the effective way.
Bye and thanks.
Posted by cmcdougall on December 29, 2001, at 11:38:54
In reply to Re: for all of the above people, posted by IsoM on December 28, 2001, at 13:46:57
Hi Iso,
I tried Provigil (modafinil) and really didn't like it. I wasn't interested in trying Adrafinil because I thought it was so much like Provigil. I like the Adderall, but you sure make adrafinil sound good.
Have you ever tried Provigil and if so, what did you think?
Thanks,
Carly> I'm not trying to push adrafinil (Olmifon) but wanted to try to explain the remarkable differences I feel between adrafinil & Dexedrine or Adderall. Because it's done SO MUCH for me, doesn't mean it will for everyone. If someone had told me before I ever tried adrafinil that I wouldn't want to use other stims, I wouldn't have believed them. My problems may be different from yours & it may account for the reason adrafinil works so well for me. I have mild narcolepsy (I won't actually fall asleep doing things but have to fight drowsiness & yawning all day, plus have the other symptoms of it), have ADHD, & depression & have trouble eating when depressed - anorexia, I can get too skinny. I honestly consider it my "wonder" drug.
>
> I tried to put the comparison in an easy-to-read format.
>
> Differences between Olmifon (adrafinil) & Dexedrine or Adderall
>
> ADRAFINIL -appetite normal, food tastes good
> DEXEDRINE -appetite reduced, but still hungry, food tastes okay only
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -hungry, but don’t feel like eating, food tastes okay only
> **************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -quiet, gentle, even motivation
> DEXEDRINE -slight motivation
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -no motivation at all
> *************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -very calm, relaxed alertness
> DEXEDRINE -slightly jittery alertness
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -slightly jittery, but trouble staying alert
> ************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -good short-term & working memory
> DEXEDRINE -still poor short-term & working memory
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -poor short-term & working memory
> *************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -focus is good & effortless
> DEXEDRINE -focus is good but on everything at once, not selective
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -focus is poor
> **************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -can stay awake easily in daytime & fall asleep easily at night
> DEXEDRINE -can stay awake when busy but can still sleep through dose too, no improved night sleep
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -always feel sleepy, poor night sleep
> ************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -effects long-lasting & continuous
> DEXEDRINE -effects wear off as dose wears off
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -n/a
> **************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -elevated mood & sociability
> DEXEDRINE -elevated mood & sociability but a little too hyper (don't know when to shut up)
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -ordinary mood, slightly down
> ************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -no yawning or sleepiness
> DEXEDRINE -no sleepiness but still yawn WITHOUT ANY STIMS -very sleepy & lots of yawning
> **************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -ease of sticking to one task & doing it even if boring job (doesn’t seem so boring)DEXEDRINE -difficulty in sticking to just one task, want to jump around from one to another
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -difficulty in wanting to even do anything unless something or someone stimulates me
> **************************************************
> ADRAFINIL -feel much brighter & clear-headed
> DEXEDRINE -feel much brighter but kind of scatter-brained
> WITHOUT ANY STIMS -feel dopey & forgetful much of the time
Posted by IsoM on December 29, 2001, at 12:27:56
In reply to Re: for all of the above people » IsoM, posted by cmcdougall on December 29, 2001, at 11:38:54
hi Carly. I haven't tried Provigil as here in Canada, I wouldn't be able to get it without a prescription & to get that, I'd need to be tested in a sleep lab first. Trouble is to get an appointment for testing takes about a year (the waiting list is huge) & you need to go off ALL meds. I refuse to. Adrafinil can be ordered cheaply from overseas. Provigil can be ordered too but is MUCH more expensive. I decided to try cheap first.I've been off my meds before & it's worse than a nightmare. My doctor who had originally made the appointment for me believes I have narcolepsy as I fit every description in the list of criteria for it. But he ended up moving & I have a diff doctor.
There's something I read on adrafinil which suggests that adrafinil might have a somewhat diff effect than modafinil (Provigil). Adrafinil has two metabolites, modafinil & CRL 40476. Little is known about CRL 40476 as studies have focused on modafinil instead. Perhaps some of the different effects of adrafinil comes from this metabolite. It's not really known - more studies need to be done on it.
The beneficial effect of adrafinil doesn't work immediately. It took a full week before I noticed anything & that was just that my yawning started to go away. (I'd yawn continuously for 15-45 minutes - huge yawns with tears rolling down my cheeks, congested nose, etc & do that up to 5 times a day. That's a lot of time spent yawning!)
Around 2 weeks on it, I was able to sit & read or watch TV without falling asleep. 3 weeks, I noticed my mood was much better & I wasn't so absent-minded. My supply ran out around 5 weeks (I screwed up the overseas order & will soon have my adrafinil again this week) but even at the 5 week point, I still continued to notice improvements. I continued to use Dexedrine for the first week or so till the adrafinil started to be enough.
In a way, I'm glad I ran out of my adrafinil. I know now from experience that it doesn't have horrible withdrawal symptoms like SSRIs do & that the effects don't fade immediately either. So it's not one of those meds that you can't do without once you start but I sure miss feeling "normal" on it. What was the strength of dosage you took of modafinil?
>
> I tried Provigil (modafinil) and really didn't like it. I wasn't interested in trying Adrafinil because I thought it was so much like Provigil. I like the Adderall, but you sure make adrafinil sound good.
>
> Have you ever tried Provigil and if so, what did you think?
Posted by christophrejmc on December 29, 2001, at 16:18:46
In reply to Re: for all of the above people » cmcdougall, posted by IsoM on December 29, 2001, at 12:27:56
> I've been off my meds before & it's worse than a nightmare. My doctor who had originally made the appointment for me believes I have narcolepsy as I fit every description in the list of criteria for it. But he ended up moving & I have a diff doctor.
I'd be interested to know what symptoms of narcolepsy you have. I have some EDS, and have certain sensations that seem similar to cataplexy (I'm wondering what "mild narcolepsy" is). I did take modafinil for a few weeks, but only prn (which helped only slightly) -- were your effects from the adrafinil immediate, or did it take some time to "kick in?"
Thanks,
Christophre
Posted by IsoM on December 29, 2001, at 17:40:16
In reply to Re: for all of the above people » IsoM, posted by christophrejmc on December 29, 2001, at 16:18:46
hi Christophre. I still feel like a hypochondriac listing these as one doctor asked me if I fall asleep just like that, literally falling over while in the middle of doing something. When I answered no, he said "then you don't have it" and made me feel like such an ass for bringing it up.
When I fall asleep at night, I can feel myself sinking slowly down, not just 'out' like some people do. I always start dreaming when falling asleep. If something wakes me (a sudden noise or something), I can recall what the dream's about. I had thought everyone starts dreaming immediately but disturbed REM sleep like immediate dreaming, is one of the signs.
Hypnopompic hallucinations (these happen on awakening for me) along with sleep paralysis use to happen but when I started on ADs, the incidence of them went way down. I occasionally will stll get a bit of sleep paralysis (I can fight my way out of it now) but no more hypnopompic hallucinations. They were truly terrifying experiences! It felt like some evil presence was standing by my bed watching me. I didn't realise that I was still asleep as I could see everything around my bedroom. It's really, REALLY creepy.
Cataplexy was another thing I'd get. Not often but enough that others thought me funny strange. One time, when I shared a place with a friend, I opened the closet & things tumbled off the top shelf. I let out a prolonged squeal & collapsed. It's weird to describe - it was when I was surprised very suddenly or found something hilarious at a time when I was also feeling very over-stressed. I'd let out this weird squealing laughter & collapse in a pile like my body was jello. The laughter would change to crying for a couple of minutes, then I'd be back to normal. When I it happened when my sons were little, it used to distress them no end. I didn't seem able to control it. I still do it but only rarely now.
So I show all four signs of narcolepsy. That's why my old doctor was convinced I had it. I had these problems for many years & never realised that they were connnected. After reading an article about narcolepsy, I did a lot more checking & clued in what it was. I consider it reasonably mild because if I'm not home to sit or lie down, I won't fall asleep in public but I'm always yawning & having people tell me I should sleep more. It was still a constant fight to stay awake. I don't bother explaining it.
When you say you took modafinil but only "prn", what do you mean? I'm not familiar with that term.
My sleepiness can be anytime, though rarest around 7:00-10:00 PM when most people are getting tired. I've gone back to bed an hour or two after waking in the morning as I couldn't fight it anymore.
It took a week of adrafinil before I noticed anything & then it was just less yawning. My yawning "attacks" starting shortning to a few minutes only a number of times a day. After a couple of weeks, I was less sleepy though I still crawled into bed occasionally during the day. I think the real benefits started showing up around 4-5 weeks. Maybe you needed to take a higher dose for a few days to see if it would help?
> I'd be interested to know what symptoms of narcolepsy you have. I have some EDS, and have certain sensations that seem similar to cataplexy (I'm wondering what "mild narcolepsy" is). I did take modafinil for a few weeks, but only prn (which helped only slightly) -- were your effects from the adrafinil immediate, or did it take some time to "kick in?"
>
> Thanks,
> Christophre
Posted by ChristophreJMC on December 29, 2001, at 23:42:01
In reply to re: Narcolepsy Signs » christophrejmc, posted by IsoM on December 29, 2001, at 17:40:16
Thanks a lot for your post, I think I'm going to try to get a sleep lab done soon (although I do share your apprehension of going off medication). I've experienced some of the symptoms you listed, it makes me semi-hopeful that I may be on the right track to solving some of my problems.
prn (pro re nata) just means "as needed" (I think -- I opted out of latin in high school); actually I took it only when I remembered to (a constant medication problem for me).
You make adrafinil sound very attractive, but I think I'll retry modafinil first as I still have some left. I have been taking the traditional psychostimulants for so long I expected modafinil to work instantaneously; seems like giving it a second trial might be a good idea.
Thanks again,
Christophre
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