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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 6 of 6. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnX2 on November 1, 2001, at 3:15:44
I'm turning into a psychophamacology
junky, so bear with me.Anyone try taking 5-htp (5-hydroxytryptophan,
an immediate precursor to serotonin production)
while also taking dextroamphetamine
(Adderall,Dexedrine)?If so what was the impact? I tried this
once and found by accident it greatly enhanced
some of the aspects of the dextroamphetamine,
I found this quite bizarre and unexpected
at the time because I wanted the 5-htp to calm
my nerves not exacerbate the amphetamine.I am finding some correlations with my studies
on amphetamine sensitization, and dopamine firing
patterns in the ventral tegmental area (focal
point of sensitization), and innervation from
the prefrontal cortex.Thanks for any feedback.
I'll post my conclusions, once I come up with as
close to a layman's understanding as possible
(still trying to understand this neurology testing
procedures, clamped cells, EPSC, etc., ugh).My goal is a clear hypothesis why NMDA antagonists
can prevent medication sensitization. Which if I
can come up with I will post.-john
Posted by JohnX2 on November 1, 2001, at 3:30:10
In reply to weirdo question regarding 5-htp and amphetamine, posted by JohnX2 on November 1, 2001, at 3:15:44
PS. I'm starting with a few stimulant
articles, and also am studying how
anti-depressants work along these brain paths.
Going to dig up as many articles as possible
to hopefully understand my med poop-out and
others such as Scott's (SLS).If someone like Cam,SLS,JG,Elizabeth,AndrewB would
like to join me in discussion, I can send the documentation
by email (but you need to download the CPC
viewer from cartesian systems)
http://www.cartesianinc.com/.
PS. their document compression tools are awesome. You can scan in
a multi-page document with multiple
large TIFF files and convert them into this very small
shrink-wrapped .cpc format that is easy to send via email.PS. I am aware of copyright laws, and will attempt
not to violate them.-john
>
> I'm turning into a psychophamacology
> junky, so bear with me.
>
> Anyone try taking 5-htp (5-hydroxytryptophan,
> an immediate precursor to serotonin production)
> while also taking dextroamphetamine
> (Adderall,Dexedrine)?
>
> If so what was the impact? I tried this
> once and found by accident it greatly enhanced
> some of the aspects of the dextroamphetamine,
> I found this quite bizarre and unexpected
> at the time because I wanted the 5-htp to calm
> my nerves not exacerbate the amphetamine.
>
> I am finding some correlations with my studies
> on amphetamine sensitization, and dopamine firing
> patterns in the ventral tegmental area (focal
> point of sensitization), and innervation from
> the prefrontal cortex.
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
>
> I'll post my conclusions, once I come up with as
> close to a layman's understanding as possible
> (still trying to understand this neurology testing
> procedures, clamped cells, EPSC, etc., ugh).
>
> My goal is a clear hypothesis why NMDA antagonists
> can prevent medication sensitization. Which if I
> can come up with I will post.
>
> -john
Posted by Cam W. on November 1, 2001, at 8:06:54
In reply to weirdo question regarding 5-htp and amphetamine, posted by JohnX2 on November 1, 2001, at 3:15:44
John - I have recently read an article that may be of interest in your pursuit of how the NMDA receptor may be involved in schizophrenia. You should be able to extrapolate information about how antagonists would work in sensitization from the following paper. If not, the article may give you a better understanding of glutamate/dopamine interactions, glutamate/GABA interactions, and AMPA/kainate acid receptor function:
Deutsch SI, Rosse RB, Schwartz BL, & Mastropaolo. A revised excitotoxic hypothesis of schizophrenia: therapeutic implications. Clinical Neuropharmacology; 24 (1): 43-49.
This paper is available online by signing up to Neuroscion ( http://www.neuroscion.com ) and searching the library.
As for downloading the software that you mention; I use a Mac and I don't have a scanner, and as most long-timers on this site will attest, I am hopeless when it comes to doing anything remotely difficult with computers.
I do hope that this article is of some help to you. - Cam
Posted by JohnX2 on November 1, 2001, at 12:14:09
In reply to Re: weirdo question regarding 5-htp and amphetamine » JohnX2, posted by Cam W. on November 1, 2001, at 8:06:54
Thanks for the info. ;)
And damn all you mac lovers, time
to switch to a powerhouse windows pc (I have
my own financial interests here)!regards,
john> John - I have recently read an article that may be of interest in your pursuit of how the NMDA receptor may be involved in schizophrenia. You should be able to extrapolate information about how antagonists would work in sensitization from the following paper. If not, the article may give you a better understanding of glutamate/dopamine interactions, glutamate/GABA interactions, and AMPA/kainate acid receptor function:
>
> Deutsch SI, Rosse RB, Schwartz BL, & Mastropaolo. A revised excitotoxic hypothesis of schizophrenia: therapeutic implications. Clinical Neuropharmacology; 24 (1): 43-49.
>
> This paper is available online by signing up to Neuroscion ( http://www.neuroscion.com ) and searching the library.
>
> As for downloading the software that you mention; I use a Mac and I don't have a scanner, and as most long-timers on this site will attest, I am hopeless when it comes to doing anything remotely difficult with computers.
>
> I do hope that this article is of some help to you. - Cam
Posted by JGalt on November 1, 2001, at 17:44:53
In reply to Re: weirdo question regarding 5-htp and amphetamine » JohnX2, posted by Cam W. on November 1, 2001, at 8:06:54
Cam- You can download that software for the macintosh too. I have it on mine. Go to http://www.CartesianInc.com/Products/Copycat/ and download it. Double click it to decompress it, then put it in the plugins folder of Netscape Navigator or Netscape Communicator (standard on most newer mac system I believe, if not, it can be downloaded too). Whenever you want to view a cpc file, open up netscape, go to File: Open: Page in Navigator. Select the file that john sends you when the menu comes up. Hope this helps.
--
John, all very interesting info that you have sent me. I'm still digesting the 50 or so pages I've read. Never knew so much info was contained in patents and beyond the abstracts of studies! Exciting stuff, the thought that serotonin may be more involved in addictiveness and sensitization and possibly tolerance than dopamine.
Interesting idea that one patent had, using the 5-HT2A agonist to protect from NMDA toxicity. They don't list where they got this particular bit of information, but on www.biopsychiatry.com, it states that "By contrast, stimulation of the 5-HT2A receptors accounts for the initial anxiety, insomnia and sexual dysfunction sometimes reported with the SSRIs". Of course, I can imagine it being possible that using the NMDA antagonist may counteract this because then the excess 5-HT2A produced by the agonist is serving a purpose...not sure.
Another interesting study that, though it does not counterdict anything you sent me, provides for another mechanism of action behind the hallucinations typically seen with 5-HT2C stimulation as opposed to 5-HT2A:
Pleiotropic behavior of 5-HT2A
and 5-HT2C receptor agonists
by
Berg KA, Maayani S, Goldfarb J, Clarke WP
Department of Pharmacology,
University of Texas Health Science Center,
San Antonio 78284-7764, USA.
Br J Psychiatry 1997 Nov; 171:444-8ABSTRACT
There is now considerable evidence that a single receptor subtype can couple to multiple effector pathways within a cell. Recently, Kenakin proposed a new concept, termed "agonist-directed trafficking of receptor stimulus", that suggests that agonists may be able to selectively activate a subset of multiple signaling pathways coupled to a single receptor subtype. 5-HT2A and 5-HT2C receptors couple to phospholipase C-(PLC) mediated inositol phosphate (IP) accumulation and PLA2-mediated arachidonic acid (AA) release. Relative efficacies of agonists (referenced to 5-HT) differed depending upon whether IP accumulation or AA release was measured. For the 5-HT2C receptor system, some agonists (e.g. TFMPP) preferentially activated the PLC-IP pathway, whereas others (e.g. LSD) favored PLA2-AA. As expected, EC50's of agonists did not differ between pathways. For the 5-HT2A receptor system, all agonists tested had greater relative efficacy for PLA2-AA than for PLC-IP. In contrast, relative efficacies were not different for 5-HT2A agonists when sequential effects in a pathway were measured (IP accumulation vs. calcium mobilization). These data strongly support the agonist-directed trafficking hypothesis.
--
As I mentioned before, I'll get back to you after I've had some time to conceptualize everything they're saying, well, that, and after I've had time to read the other 3 large articles you sent that I still have yet to read. Be sure to pass along anything else you find of interest!
JGalt
Posted by jojo on November 3, 2001, at 10:54:45
In reply to weirdo question regarding 5-htp and amphetamine, posted by JohnX2 on November 1, 2001, at 3:15:44
>
> I'm turning into a psychophamacology
> junky, so bear with me.
>
> Anyone try taking 5-htp (5-hydroxytryptophan,
> an immediate precursor to serotonin production)
> while also taking dextroamphetamine
> (Adderall,Dexedrine)?
>
> If so what was the impact? I tried this
> once and found by accident it greatly enhanced
> some of the aspects of the dextroamphetamine,
> I found this quite bizarre and unexpected
> at the time because I wanted the 5-htp to calm
> my nerves not exacerbate the amphetamine.
>
> I am finding some correlations with my studies
> on amphetamine sensitization, and dopamine firing
> patterns in the ventral tegmental area (focal
> point of sensitization), and innervation from
> the prefrontal cortex.
>
> Thanks for any feedback.
>
> I'll post my conclusions, once I come up with as
> close to a layman's understanding as possible
> (still trying to understand this neurology testing
> procedures, clamped cells, EPSC, etc., ugh).
>
> My goal is a clear hypothesis why NMDA antagonists
> can prevent medication sensitization. Which if I
> can come up with I will post.
>
> -johnjohn-
Be sure to monitor your blood pressure.
This is the end of the thread.
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