![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 17:12:31
I may go on a sedating a-d after getting off EffexorXR, and the two main ones seem to be Remeron (which concerns me because I've read on here of both hang-over/drowsiness the following morning after taking it and potential weight gain) and Serzone. If anyone has tried these, which one gives LESS of the hang-over/drowsy in the morning effect? Thanks for any info.
-Janelle
Posted by JohnL on August 15, 2001, at 18:51:31
In reply to Remeron v. Serzone: which less hangover effect?, posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 17:12:31
> I may go on a sedating a-d after getting off EffexorXR, and the two main ones seem to be Remeron (which concerns me because I've read on here of both hang-over/drowsiness the following morning after taking it and potential weight gain) and Serzone. If anyone has tried these, which one gives LESS of the hang-over/drowsy in the morning effect? Thanks for any info.
> -JanelleJanelle,
I was on Serzone for almost three months, and Remeron for well over a year, so I can make some comparisons based on my own experience, which may or may not be the same as someone else's experience. For me, Serzone had more of a lingering hangover effect. The Remeron hangover disappeared fast after my first coffee. The Serzone sluggishness seemed to linger until after lunch.I am going to sound like a broken record. Some people get annoyed when I do. But here goes. One word....Zyprexa. Personally I wouldn't even consider either Remeron or Serzone until I had tried Zyprexa first. This is not just my own experience however. If you search through the archives of this board, you will have a hard time finding anyone who has been real happy with either Serzone or Remeron. There are some, but not many. On the other hand, it's much easier to find people who have done well with Zyprexa. It's hangover is practically nothing compared to Remeron or Serzone. And its antidepressant potential, in my own experience, is far stronger than either Remeron or Serzone. The main drawback is weight gain. But knowing ahead of time that it might happen, it can be controlled. The weight gain tends to peak at about 4 to 8 weeks, and then disappears after that. I have lost all the initial weight I gained without even trying.
I realize you were asking about Remeron and Serzone. But my vote is for neither. My vote is for Zyprexa. Yeah yeah, I know, all my posts are about Zyprexa. Add this one to the list. But keep in mind, it's for good reason. It's a wonderful drug for many people. It's hard to say that about either Remeron or Serzone.
John
Posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 19:53:03
In reply to Re: Remeron v. Serzone: which less hangover effect?, posted by JohnL on August 15, 2001, at 18:51:31
Fascinating and what a coincidence that not only were you on Serzone for almost three months, and Remeron for well over a year, so you are in an excellent position to make some comparisons based on your experience (which understandbly might or might not differ from that of others).
I'm dismayed (but not surprised) to hear that BOTH Serzone and Remeron have hang-over effects, but I'm a coffee drinker also (moderate), so that could help me too.
Coincidentally (and you already know since you read my other thread!) I AM on Zyprexa and it is great for sleep - however, I've heard that it doesn't do much, if anything for depression, although my pdoc is hoping that the Lamictal will alleviate the depression and I won't even need an a-d.
I have indeed found that on this board, there is little support for either Serzone or Remeron, but I wanted to put up a new thread for newcomers who might have feedback for me.
I am experiencing the main drawback of Zyprexa - stimulated appetite and I am reeeeeeally struggling to cope with this to avoid weight gain. I think I'm approaching the 8 week point on Zyprexa, and am happy to hear that the appetite stimulation/weight gain side effect DOES go away after this amount of time. I thought it remained for as long as one remains on Zyprexa.
Thanks for all your info.
-Janelle
Posted by Mitch on August 15, 2001, at 23:46:43
In reply to Remeron v. Serzone: which less hangover effect?, posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 17:12:31
> I may go on a sedating a-d after getting off EffexorXR, and the two main ones seem to be Remeron (which concerns me because I've read on here of both hang-over/drowsiness the following morning after taking it and potential weight gain) and Serzone. If anyone has tried these, which one gives LESS of the hang-over/drowsy in the morning effect? Thanks for any info.
> -Janelle
It all depends on the severity of your depression. I have tried both of them. If you are mildly depressed/anxious and need something a *little* sedating then the Serzone might be the best bet since the dose you would need would be lower. However, if your depression is greater in severity, warranting a relatively higher dose then I think the Remeron would be the better bet-because at *high* doses it has less *hangover* and drowsiness the next day.
Posted by cb on August 16, 2001, at 6:58:42
In reply to JOHN L: About Zyprexa !! » JohnL, posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 19:53:03
> My son had a huge weight gain with zyprexa - the doc put him on Axid (an acid reflux med) because it was supposed to help with countering the weight gain from zyprexa - it worked!
Posted by allisonm on August 16, 2001, at 11:32:27
In reply to Remeron v. Serzone: which less hangover effect?, posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 17:12:31
I took Remeron for more than 2 years. I found the highest dose I took (45mg) was most sedating. In fact, I usually was careful to be at home when I took it before bedtime. I did have weight gain. I took it with lithium and then with Wellbutrin.
For four or months now I have been taking Serzone (150m tid) with Wellbutrin (150mg tid). I have found that there also is a fog with the Serzone, but where the Remeron fog cleared with a cup of coffee, the Serzone hangover is stickier and takes longer to pass. My sleep is not as sound on Serzone, but I have not experienced weight gain either.
Good luck.
I'm not taking Serzone > I may go on a sedating a-d after getting off EffexorXR, and the two main ones seem to be Remeron (which concerns me because I've read on here of both hang-over/drowsiness the following morning after taking it and potential weight gain) and Serzone. If anyone has tried these, which one gives LESS of the hang-over/drowsy in the morning effect? Thanks for any info.
> -Janelle
Posted by Collete on August 18, 2001, at 12:52:56
In reply to JOHN L: About Zyprexa !! » JohnL, posted by Janelle on August 15, 2001, at 19:53:03
> Coincidentally (and you already know since you read my other thread!) I AM on Zyprexa and it is great for sleep - however, I've heard that it doesn't do much, if anything for depression, although my pdoc is hoping that the Lamictal will alleviate the depression and I won't even need an a-d.
Janelle, I just started Zyprexa two nights ago & so far it doesn't seem to be doing anything to help me sleep HOWEVER, it seems to be really lifting my mood and I don't feel dysthymic. I think it's too early to tell. How much Zyprexa do you take and at what time? I am just on 2.5mg so far. Did it start to help you with sleep right away? Thanks, Collette
>
Posted by JohnL on August 18, 2001, at 16:19:22
In reply to Re: JOHN L: About Zyprexa !! » Janelle, posted by Collete on August 18, 2001, at 12:52:56
>
>
> > Coincidentally (and you already know since you read my other thread!) I AM on Zyprexa and it is great for sleep - however, I've heard that it doesn't do much, if anything for depression, although my pdoc is hoping that the Lamictal will alleviate the depression and I won't even need an a-d.
>
> Janelle, I just started Zyprexa two nights ago & so far it doesn't seem to be doing anything to help me sleep HOWEVER, it seems to be really lifting my mood and I don't feel dysthymic. I think it's too early to tell. How much Zyprexa do you take and at what time? I am just on 2.5mg so far. Did it start to help you with sleep right away? Thanks, Collette
> >I take 5mg at about 6:00pm. I was on 2.5mg for about a month before I increased it to 5mg. Zyprexa does not knock me out, but once I am asleep I sleep really good. Whatever doctors out there that say Zyprexa doesn't have much antidepressant effect couldn't be more wrong. I noticed improvement within 24 hours. There was no question in my mind I had stumbled on to something good. The initial sedation and the initial weight gain scared me though, and I almost threw in the towel. I'm glad I didn't!
John
Posted by Vince on August 18, 2001, at 23:06:24
In reply to Re: Remeron v. Serzone: which less hangover effect?, posted by JohnL on August 15, 2001, at 18:51:31
> Janelle,
> I was on Serzone for almost three months, and Remeron for well over a year, so I can make some comparisons based on my own experience, which may or may not be the same as someone else's experience. For me, Serzone had more of a lingering hangover effect. The Remeron hangover disappeared fast after my first coffee. The Serzone sluggishness seemed to linger until after lunch.
>
> I am going to sound like a broken record. Some people get annoyed when I do. But here goes. One word....Zyprexa. Personally I wouldn't even consider either Remeron or Serzone until I had tried Zyprexa first. This is not just my own experience however. If you search through the archives of this board, you will have a hard time finding anyone who has been real happy with either Serzone or Remeron. There are some, but not many. On the other hand, it's much easier to find people who have done well with Zyprexa. It's hangover is practically nothing compared to Remeron or Serzone. And its antidepressant potential, in my own experience, is far stronger than either Remeron or Serzone. The main drawback is weight gain. But knowing ahead of time that it might happen, it can be controlled. The weight gain tends to peak at about 4 to 8 weeks, and then disappears after that. I have lost all the initial weight I gained without even trying.
>
> I realize you were asking about Remeron and Serzone. But my vote is for neither. My vote is for Zyprexa. Yeah yeah, I know, all my posts are about Zyprexa. Add this one to the list. But keep in mind, it's for good reason. It's a wonderful drug for many people. It's hard to say that about either Remeron or Serzone.
> JohnJohn - Maybe this thread isn't the place to ask, but have you ever tried Geodon? It's supposed to be like zyprexa without the weight gain. I was considering zyprexa when Geodon was released. I'm not sure that I like it all that much, although it helps with suicidal ideation and some other symptoms, it doesn't help much with anxiety and it leaves me feeling emotionally flat. I've been thinking about switching to Zyprexa. What's your thoughts?
Vince
Posted by JohnL on August 19, 2001, at 5:18:39
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? what about Geodon » JohnL, posted by Vince on August 18, 2001, at 23:06:24
>
> John - Maybe this thread isn't the place to ask, but have you ever tried Geodon? It's supposed to be like zyprexa without the weight gain. I was considering zyprexa when Geodon was released. I'm not sure that I like it all that much, although it helps with suicidal ideation and some other symptoms, it doesn't help much with anxiety and it leaves me feeling emotionally flat. I've been thinking about switching to Zyprexa. What's your thoughts?
>
> VinceHi Vince,
Though I've tried just about everything out there, Geodon is one I haven't tried. It came out after I was already doing well on other meds. Just simply based on casual observations at this board however, I think more people have had a lot more success with Zyprexa than with Geodon. Low dose Risperdal is another option, with supposedly less weight gain, but I personally view Zyprexa as the gold standard. Just my opinion.
John
Posted by vince on August 19, 2001, at 16:35:07
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? what about Geodon, posted by JohnL on August 19, 2001, at 5:18:39
>
> >
> > John - Maybe this thread isn't the place to ask, but have you ever tried Geodon? It's supposed to be like zyprexa without the weight gain. I was considering zyprexa when Geodon was released. I'm not sure that I like it all that much, although it helps with suicidal ideation and some other symptoms, it doesn't help much with anxiety and it leaves me feeling emotionally flat. I've been thinking about switching to Zyprexa. What's your thoughts?
> >
> > Vince
>
> Hi Vince,
> Though I've tried just about everything out there, Geodon is one I haven't tried. It came out after I was already doing well on other meds. Just simply based on casual observations at this board however, I think more people have had a lot more success with Zyprexa than with Geodon. Low dose Risperdal is another option, with supposedly less weight gain, but I personally view Zyprexa as the gold standard. Just my opinion.
> JohnJohn thanks for your response. I've been having problems with anxiety for the last few months and It has got worse just recently. I was wondering if Zyprexa might be any good for anxiety. It has rereally been unbearable lately. Did you suffer from anxiety and did Zyprexa help?
Vince
Posted by JohnL on August 19, 2001, at 17:20:15
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? what about Geodon, posted by vince on August 19, 2001, at 16:35:07
> >
> > >
> > > John - Maybe this thread isn't the place to ask, but have you ever tried Geodon? It's supposed to be like zyprexa without the weight gain. I was considering zyprexa when Geodon was released. I'm not sure that I like it all that much, although it helps with suicidal ideation and some other symptoms, it doesn't help much with anxiety and it leaves me feeling emotionally flat. I've been thinking about switching to Zyprexa. What's your thoughts?
> > >
> > > Vince
> >
> > Hi Vince,
> > Though I've tried just about everything out there, Geodon is one I haven't tried. It came out after I was already doing well on other meds. Just simply based on casual observations at this board however, I think more people have had a lot more success with Zyprexa than with Geodon. Low dose Risperdal is another option, with supposedly less weight gain, but I personally view Zyprexa as the gold standard. Just my opinion.
> > John
>
> John thanks for your response. I've been having problems with anxiety for the last few months and It has got worse just recently. I was wondering if Zyprexa might be any good for anxiety. It has rereally been unbearable lately. Did you suffer from anxiety and did Zyprexa help?
>
> VinceHello Vince,
I really don't know if Zyprexa is good for anxiety or not. I would assume that doses in the 5mg to 15mg range could be, though I'm not sure on that. I never had real anxiety. I did have the kind of anxiety that would pop up when I was in social situations, or if I had to talk to a stranger, or something like that. Zyprexa has definitely helped with that type of anxiety. I am calm and cool in a crowd. It used to be I was scared and nervous in a crowd and just wanted to run and hide.Probably your best bet for real anxiety is one of the benzos, like Xanax, Valium, or Klonopin. The SSRIs are also prescribed for anxiety, but I don't like to see them used for that. That's because the way they get rid of anxiety is by numbing down emotions. It's not unusual for SSRIs to numb everything, good and bad. They also take a long time to work and can actually make anxiety a lot worse before it starts to get better. So if a doc tries to talk you into an SSRI for anxiety, I would consider stearing the conversation in a different direction. Benzos do have addiction risk, and anxiety will return when they are stopped, but with a doc's assistance and responsible dosing they can work great and have few risks.
But again, I'm not sure about Zyprexa. Maybe someone else here will join in with info on the subject.
John
Posted by ChrisK on August 20, 2001, at 3:15:11
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? what about Geodon Vince, posted by JohnL on August 19, 2001, at 17:20:15
Vince,
I found Zyprexa to be very good for anxiety but I had to go up to 7.5 mg/day to really notice a difference. As John said the best meds for anxiety are the benzos and my personal favorite is Klonopin.
You may see very different results with Geodon for anxiety. I switched this year and the Geodon is definitely more activating than Zyprexa. I take it in the morning instead of night because it lead to disturbed sleep patterns. My anxiety problems have been in remission for awhile now so I don't know if Geodon would have the same effect on anxiety as Zyprexa did.
I would suggest that if it is strictly an anxiety problem you are havuing that you try Klonopin first but if it's continued depression with obsessive type thoughts that Zyprexa would be your first choice.
My $.02,
Chris
> Hello Vince,
> I really don't know if Zyprexa is good for anxiety or not. I would assume that doses in the 5mg to 15mg range could be, though I'm not sure on that. I never had real anxiety. I did have the kind of anxiety that would pop up when I was in social situations, or if I had to talk to a stranger, or something like that. Zyprexa has definitely helped with that type of anxiety. I am calm and cool in a crowd. It used to be I was scared and nervous in a crowd and just wanted to run and hide.
>
> Probably your best bet for real anxiety is one of the benzos, like Xanax, Valium, or Klonopin. The SSRIs are also prescribed for anxiety, but I don't like to see them used for that. That's because the way they get rid of anxiety is by numbing down emotions. It's not unusual for SSRIs to numb everything, good and bad. They also take a long time to work and can actually make anxiety a lot worse before it starts to get better. So if a doc tries to talk you into an SSRI for anxiety, I would consider stearing the conversation in a different direction. Benzos do have addiction risk, and anxiety will return when they are stopped, but with a doc's assistance and responsible dosing they can work great and have few risks.
>
> But again, I'm not sure about Zyprexa. Maybe someone else here will join in with info on the subject.
> John
Posted by Zo on August 21, 2001, at 21:28:34
In reply to Re: Zyprexa? what about Geodon Vince, posted by ChrisK on August 20, 2001, at 3:15:11
You MEN are really bugging me with your Zyprexa. . .Must be only women for whom it PACKS ON the weight. . I mean, scarily!
Green with envy,
Zo
Posted by krista on October 9, 2001, at 0:02:32
In reply to Re: Remeron v. Serzone: which less hangover effect?, posted by JohnL on August 15, 2001, at 18:51:31
>I am now taking Serzone. Been on it for a year and it does help some but I'm still having problems with motivation Also it does leave me a bit sluggish after each initial dose.. I am going to try Remeron next. I'll keep you posted.
As far as Zyprexa goes. Unless you have a certain type of depression than it may not be helpfull. It is mainly used for Schizophrenia. My uncle was on it for years and he had to take several drugs just to combat the side effects of it.
It has the side effects of other antipyschotic drugs such as tremor, confusion, unusual movement ect. I would try antidepressants first and then try an antipsychotic if nothing is helping. They do help some people with depression.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.