![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 83. Go back in thread:
Posted by Conundrum on September 16, 2010, at 8:06:55
In reply to Re: sad and frustrated » Vincent_QC, posted by Maxime on September 15, 2010, at 18:15:14
How do psych services operate in canada? Do you have to pay out of pocket at all. What makes them so bad? I will use this information so I can go comfort my Fox News loving family and tell them they were right about Health Care reform all along.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 16, 2010, at 13:10:35
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by Conundrum on September 16, 2010, at 8:06:55
> How do psych services operate in canada? Do you have to pay out of pocket at all. What makes them so bad? I will use this information so I can go comfort my Fox News loving family and tell them they were right about Health Care reform all along.
I can't talk about peoples who live outside the Quebec province, but I think it's different for every provinces in the Canada.
For the Quebec, we don't pay to see a PDoc...in one way, we pay tax on incomes, if you work of course... and if you don't work and are on the wellfare and disable from work because of a disease you receive not a lot of money each month, it's around 680$ month... and if you live with your parents because you are disable and can't afford to pay for an appartement alone and need some help they cut you 100 $ each month, so you ending with only 580$...
The main problem is that if you work for the a private compagny and not the Governement, you will have private health insurance and most of the time, those private health insurance will only cover a small part of the services like the dentist or the meds...
The main problem is that it's a public health service, public mean LONG WAITING LIST!!! So you don't have to pay to see a Doc or a PDoc or to have a surgery or cancer treatment...but if for example you go to the emergency, it will take forever to see a Doctor, because they lack of nurses and Doctors, if you need to see a PDoc, it's really complicated, long process, and you have to not forget that if you ask your Family Doc to see a PDoc, it's because you have already a psychological disorder to treat... but they don't care... you need a reference paper from your Family Doc... with that paper you have to call at your local CLSC (a kind of small medical clinic) and then they put you on a waiting list to meet a social worker who will fulfill a request to see a PDoc... around 3 to 6 months of waiting before seeing the social worker...
Then they put you again on a waiting list and you wait for the phone call from the psychiatric hospital, who is around another 6-9 months of waiting... And don'T forget that you wait already 3 to 6 months so you add another 6 to 9 months and you get more than 1 year minimum before having the first appointment with the PDoc...
If the PDoc is not good, or if after 1-2 years you don't get better, you can change to another PDoc but you need to redone all the process and you will be wait again for a long time...
The same thing occur for peoples with cancer or cardiac peoples or other peoples who need urgent surgery... they are put on waiting list and some of them die in the meantime... That's horrible I know but it's the reallity...
Welcome to the Canada... or to the Quebec to be more specific...
Posted by emmanuel98 on September 16, 2010, at 18:56:29
In reply to Re: sad and frustrated » Maxime, posted by Vincent_QC on September 16, 2010, at 6:55:20
I know there are problems with the Canadian health system, but here in the states it is also true that you will not be admitted to a psychiatric ward/hospital unless you are a danger to yourself or others. Insurance companies simply won't pay otherwise. Anxiety disorders will not get you admitted to a hospital. In fact, I was in withdrawal from opiates and my insurance company would not pay for inpatient treatment, since opiate withdrawal, hard as it is, is not life-threatening.
Posted by Maxime on September 16, 2010, at 20:00:27
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by Conundrum on September 16, 2010, at 8:06:55
> How do psych services operate in canada? Do you have to pay out of pocket at all. What makes them so bad? I will use this information so I can go comfort my Fox News loving family and tell them they were right about Health Care reform all along.
It's an awful system when it comes to psych services. We can use our health card to see psychiatrist because they are medical doctor. But you can wait up to a year to see one. That happened to me when I returned to Montreal from the States. I waited 10 months to see someone and what was his cure for me? "You should have an intimate relationship and you will feel better". Hello! Did I just wait 10 monthes to hear that????
Luckily I was able to find a psych who works out of his home. Thing is that he is 88 years old and I am scared he is going to die soon. Silly fear. but not out the realm of possibilities. In fact I have been trying to get in touch with him and he is not returning my calls or emails which is VERY unlike him. I hope he is okay.
Another thing about Quebec is that you are supposed to see the psychiatrist that is in your postal code. Someone once told me to find a pdoc that I like, and then move to that postal code! Can you imsgine telling a cardiac patient the same thing? It would be all over the papers. But we are just psych patients.
So that is just some of the problems with the system. And they are critical. I hope that they can do something to fix them, but there are not enough pdocs in Quebec to go around. Same with GP and specialised doctors. I think there are over 2 million people in Montreal who cannot get a GP. I am lucky, I am seeing the same one since 1991.
It's not a great system, we just have to deal with it. I think we put with a lot because we have no other choice. The system in England is similar. I don't know if they have long waits that we do to see specialists, or problems finding a GP
Posted by Conundrum on September 16, 2010, at 23:22:09
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by Maxime on September 16, 2010, at 20:00:27
Maybe all the Pdocs are moving south ;-)
That sucks, but I am paying out of pocket. My pdoc is nice in that she lets me get a lot done in a short phone conversation. I couldn't afford it otherwise.
Posted by linkadge on September 17, 2010, at 8:19:24
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by Vincent_QC on September 16, 2010, at 13:10:35
I'm in Ontario. The system has been marginal, I guess.
It can take a while to see a psychiatrist, if your case qualifies as needing it. The appointments are often short (for me at least) (15 min or so).
The drugs are expensive, and if you don't have private insurance (or aren't needy enough for government coverage) you end up paying out of pocket for drugs.
I take ritalin, but I would benefit from ritalin CR. Ritalin CR would run me over $250 a month out of pocket. Because of my situation, theres nobody to pick up that tab.
Oh, and the drugs don't really work :) But I guess thats pretty much common to all countries :)
Linkadge
Posted by Conundrum on September 17, 2010, at 22:27:33
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by linkadge on September 17, 2010, at 8:19:24
So thats $250 for a whole bunch of nothing. :)
Posted by Conundrum on September 17, 2010, at 22:29:01
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by linkadge on September 17, 2010, at 8:19:24
BTW that sounds horrible. I guess I'm gonna have to vote for the Repugnantcans this november.
Posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 9:58:15
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by Conundrum on September 16, 2010, at 23:22:09
> Maybe all the Pdocs are moving south ;-)
>
> That sucks, but I am paying out of pocket. My pdoc is nice in that she lets me get a lot done in a short phone conversation. I couldn't afford it otherwise.I think many do go to the states to practice. Another thing about the Canadian System is that it takes us longer to have meds approved by Health Canada. Abilify only became available this year in Canada.
Posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 11:26:02
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Conundrum on September 17, 2010, at 22:27:33
>So thats $250 for a whole bunch of nothing. :)
What do you mean? I said SSRIs were overhyped.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 11:26:56
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 9:58:15
And some meds we havn't got at all. I don't think emsam is available.
Linkadge
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 18, 2010, at 12:48:23
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 11:26:56
> And some meds we havn't got at all. I don't think emsam is available.
>
> LinkadgeYeah, Health Canada always take more times to approve new meds and that's suck...
I guess we will have the Valdoxan only in 3-4 years...
We only had the Cymbalta approve 2 years ago and it was available in the USA 2 years before. Same for the Lexapro who is call Cipralex in the Canada.
The Luvox CR is not avlaible in the Canada and will never be launch here.
My PDoc wanted to start me on the Liquid Paxil because I overreact to SSRI'S meds now and we don't know why... he had to fill out some papers and send them to Health Canada for the SAP programme (The Special Access Programme, who provides access to nonmarketed drugs for practitioners treating patients with serious or life-threatening conditions when conventional therapies have failed, are unsuitable, or unavailable and authorizes a manufacturer to sell a drug that cannot otherwise be sold or distributed in Canada). After 6 months and a lot of phone call and e-mails send to the SAP programme, we receive a negative answer from them... for a mysterious reason they say all the SSRI's in liquid form was withdraw from the Canadian market years ago because they was toxic?!? The only one liquid SSRI who stay available in the Canada is the BAD Generic Prozac (APO-Fluoxetine...
Emsam is not avalaible in the Canada and will never be available. My PDoc try to import it into the Canada and the drug company who produce it in the States asking for a lot a $$$$ for it, it was something like 12-16 $ for each patch and at the smaller dose...more expensive for higher dose patch.
Same for the Marplan, who is another MAOI who will never be available in the Canada, my PDoc ask Health Canada and the SAP programme to have the right to import it and they say yes but I had to pay for it and it was around 200$ for 90 pills of 10mg, and the effective dose is 30 mg who mean 600$ for one month and Health Canada wanted that my PDoc send a medical report of side-effects and improves to them each month for all the time I will be on it, so I say no to the Marplan.
Some of the older TCA's are not available in the Canada also... can't remember witch ones... as well as older tetracyclic (not the Remeron)...
One drug who will be interresting to try is not available in the USA and the Canada, only in Europe, even if it's old, it's the Coaxil (Stablon), always wanted to know if it's good to treat anxiety disorders???
Health Canada is also very strict for the natural products. You have to be lucky to succeed to buy natural products from the web and receive them by mail!!! I was lucky to receive the Inositol, who is not allowed here, only in Vitamine B complex at low dose of 100mg maximum... wanted to try it because some studies show it was effective for panic disorder and other anxiety disorders as well but I was afraid to try it to the recommended dose of 18 gramm day... but I receive it! lol
Anyway... I think both country, USA or Canada, face a lot of problems with the medical cares system... and meds...
Posted by Conundrum on September 18, 2010, at 14:09:19
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Vincent_QC on September 18, 2010, at 12:48:23
I've figured out the way these big companies keep making money here. They give the doctors all these new drugs that are samples. Which the patients and the doctors love because they're free, but then if they get you hooked on them, you have to have your insurance pay some ridiculous amount. Or you go on patient assistance programs, but they still are making a boat load of money. I thought about because I wanted to try Wellbutrin XL but now they have a new brand name bupropion hydrobromide. I could probably get samples but then I would have to pay and who knows if its really as good as wellbutrin? The same goes for pristiq.
Posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 14:17:28
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Vincent_QC on September 18, 2010, at 12:48:23
>Health Canada is also very strict for the >natural products. >Inositol, who is not allowed here, only in Vitamine B complex at low dose of 100mg maximum... wanted to try it because some studies show it was effective for panic disorder and other anxiety disorders as well but I was afraid to try it to the recommended dose of 18 gramm day... but I receive it! lol
I agree. Canada is pathetic when it comes to medications and supplements. They obviously don't give a rats behind about staying with cutting edge medicine.
Inositol *is* available in canada. I just bought a jar of inositol powder from GNC. 500g for about $25.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 14:57:55
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 14:17:28
>Canada is pathetic when it comes to medications........
It's not always a bad thing that they're cautious to approve new products, some meds which have had to be withdrawn from the market (for safety reasons) in other coutries might never have been approved in Canada in the first place.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 15:00:34
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Vincent_QC on September 18, 2010, at 12:48:23
>he had to fill out some papers and send them to Health Canada for the SAP programme
That sounds complex. In the UK, the doctor just prescribes as usual and the pharmacy can buy from a specialist importing company.
Posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 16:22:57
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 14:57:55
I totally agree. Serzone was taken off the market here way before the US.
It's just that sometimes it is frustrating to read on PB the different meds that are available and how well they work. I think "I must try that med!". They can import a med to Canada if your doctor fills out a form. I don't know how easy it is to do.
I remember waiting a long time for Cymbalta to come to Canada. I went on it and it worked for about a year. I still had some depression, but no med gets rid of my depression 100 percent.
Posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 16:24:39
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 15:00:34
> >he had to fill out some papers and send them to Health Canada for the SAP programme
>
> That sounds complex. In the UK, the doctor just prescribes as usual and the pharmacy can buy from a specialist importing company.It's a pain in the *ss. My psych had to do the same thing for Adderall. We are still waiting to have it approved and we submitted the form about a month ago or maybe before.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 16:48:42
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 16:24:39
>We are still waiting to have it approved
I don't think they've even applied for Adderall to be approved here. We don't really 'do' stimulants apart from tea, coffee and cigs, usually tea. Can't beat a cup of Tetley's lol :)
Posted by conundrum on September 18, 2010, at 18:39:03
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 16:22:57
serzone is still available in the US under the generic nefazodone. Its just that bristol meyes squib removed the brand name from the market. A lot of psychiatrists in my area seem to still use it.
Posted by Maxime on September 18, 2010, at 18:58:50
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 16:48:42
> >We are still waiting to have it approved
>
> I don't think they've even applied for Adderall to be approved here. We don't really 'do' stimulants apart from tea, coffee and cigs, usually tea. Can't beat a cup of Tetley's lol :)
>LMAO! So I should drink more tea and take up smoking. You are right about a cup of Tetley's. A cup of tea can help in all situations ... that is what my dad believed too.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 6:06:56
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by linkadge on September 18, 2010, at 14:17:28
> Inositol *is* available in canada. I just bought a jar of inositol powder from GNC. 500g for about $25.
>
> LinkadgeYou are from the Ontario Linkadge???
I think some provinces in the Canada have different allowed natural products... not sure but I ask all the Pharmacists in my area, they do some research and they told me it was not allow in the Quebec province... So I order it from the States...
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 6:08:22
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 18, 2010, at 15:00:34
> >he had to fill out some papers and send them to Health Canada for the SAP programme
>
> That sounds complex. In the UK, the doctor just prescribes as usual and the pharmacy can buy from a specialist importing company.That's complex... everything is complex in the Quebec province... Health Canada are very strict...
Posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 6:45:50
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 6:06:56
Ah, you're in quebec. Inositol is here in ontario. But, there are other supplements I can't get in ontario like picamilon, or lithium (supplemental) etc.
Linkadge
Posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 6:55:21
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 6:45:50
Its also interesting that there are quite a few from Canada here. Maybe you'd be better now if you were living in the U.S. (and you had insurance of course.)
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.